Bill Calfee, spare parts question.....

Howdy Bill,
I have a spare parts question. You mentioned in one of the Remington 37 threads a long time ago that locking lugs can take a "set". I have a spare new-old-stock bolt handle and locking lugs for a 37. I also have a spare new-old-stock bolt body. I keep looking at that bolt body, and thinking how cool it would be to have 6 ignition in a 37.

With new locking lugs and a new bolt body, should they be ok to use on the action as is, or would the action itself have also taken a set from the original locking lugs?

My goal is to actually have two breech bolts, the original, and the newly set up bolt with six ignition, and having the bolt handle modified to work easier for a left hander. I still have some parts to track down.

I guess the big question is, did the receiver likely take a set from the original locking lugs over the years to the point that new lugs would be a problem?

Take care,

Greg

Friend 404tbang

404tbang said:

Howdy Bill,
I have a spare parts question. You mentioned in one of the Remington 37 threads a long time ago that locking lugs can take a "set". I have a spare new-old-stock bolt handle and locking lugs for a 37. I also have a spare new-old-stock bolt body. I keep looking at that bolt body, and thinking how cool it would be to have 6 ignition in a 37.

With new locking lugs and a new bolt body, should they be ok to use on the action as is, or would the action itself have also taken a set from the original locking lugs?

My goal is to actually have two breech bolts, the original, and the newly set up bolt with six ignition, and having the bolt handle modified to work easier for a left hander. I still have some parts to track down.

I guess the big question is, did the receiver likely take a set from the original locking lugs over the years to the point that new lugs would be a problem?

Take care,

Greg

Click to expand...

Friend 404tbang:

All you could do is put marking dye on the parts and see how they fit...............

I don't believe I would ever run two different breech bolts in one action, at least ways not a serious, accuracy action.

The parts in an action seat themselves from use, just like piston rings in an automobile engine....

Can you imagine what would happen if you pulled all of the pistons from an automobile engine and swapped the rings on all of the pistons, then put them back in the engine?

The guy behind you would have to be wearing goggles so he could see the road.......from all of the oil smoke you'd be making.

Same with a rimfire accuracy action.

Your buddy, BC

Bill Calfee said:

Friend 404tbang:

All you could do is put marking dye on the parts and see how they fit...............

I don't believe I would ever run two different breech bolts in one action, at least ways not a serious, accuracy action.

The parts in an action seat themselves from use, just like piston rings in an automobile engine....

Can you imagine what would happen if you pulled all of the pistons from an automobile engine and swapped the rings on all of the pistons, then put them back in the engine?

The guy behind you would have to be wearing goggles so he could see the road.......from all of the oil smoke you'd be making.

Same with a rimfire accuracy action.

Your buddy, BC

Click to expand...

Howdy Bill,
Interesting analogy, I didn't think of it like that. Looks like I need to rethink things!

Thanks!

Greg

Friend 404tbang

404tbang said:

Howdy Bill,
Interesting analogy, I didn't think of it like that. Looks like I need to rethink things!

Thanks!

Greg

Click to expand...

Friend 404tbang:

I wouldn't stop thinking about how to 6 ignition your 37........

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If one thinks about it, on a 90 degree bolt lift action, the face of the bolt handle/locking lugs only sees the shoulder of the tenon at the rear of the breech bolt in 25% increments of the circumference..............

The locking lugs, of course, don't spin 360 degrees on the breech bolt every time the action is cycled.

If one thinks; "if the two surfaces are machined properly, then even though the surfaces only rotate on a 25% track with each other, the circumference should wear the same".

No, it doesn't.

Think about something here:

As you lift the breech bolt handle, there is a tremendous pressure exerted by the cocking piece teat on the cocking ramp.

And that tremendous pressure is transferred to only one area of the contact surface between the locking lugs and the shoulder of the breech bolt that they purchase against. ( even on dual teat/ramp action like the TCA's this same thing occurs......this is why the 12:00 teat/ramp is absolutely useless, and ugly to boot)

If you have clearance enough for the locking lugs to rotate on the tenon of the breech bolt, then the locking lugs actually rock "into" the pressure applied by the firing pin spring and cocking piece teat, as you lift the handle.

Therefore, part of the contact surfaces have more pressure applied to them than others..........and remember, the entire circumference of these surfaces only see their contact in 25% increments.

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So what happens if one takes a used breech bolt, that has developed, seated, the wear pattern between the locking lugs and bolt body, and place a new, fresh machined set of locking lugs on that bolt body?

So swapping locking lugs and bolt bodies of used parts is not a good idea.

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And we're not even talking about how different locking lugs will mate up to the locking lug seats in the action......


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You said you had a new set of lugs and bolt...............the fit of the new locking lugs in your action will still be an issue...

And remember, those locking lugs, just like the 52 Winchester, are cased.

So no lapping of the locking lugs..............

Friend 404tbang, I can't imagine someone producing an accuracy action today with cased parts...........

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Today I do change locking lugs on breech bolt bodies of actions..........but, there is a difference.

I only do this on brand new actions that have developed no wear pattern.

Or, if I do change the locking lugs on a used breech bolt, like on my little Falcon Sporta, where I PAS ignitioned it using a Turbo breech bolt body and X-90 locking lugs, I sat the breech bolt up and freshened the contact shoulder of the tenon where the locking lugs purchase...

And of course the X-90 lugs were brand new.

So I actually started with fresh contact surfaces.

And, I cut new locking lug seats in the action.........the X-90 lug diameter is larger than the Falcon so I had to increase the diameter of the clearance for the lugs to rotate...


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One other thing:

I laid in bed all night last evening and pondered converting my #14 pistol to PAS ignition...............

Can you imagine, a vertical lock-up action with PAS ignition................

I think I've got all of the details worked out...............

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See, with my manual re-set trigger on my XP, I've provided the absolute best possibility for the breech bolt to relax when the firing pin moves forward.

Can you imagine what will happen when I add PAS ignition too!

Man I cited.

Your buddy, BC