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Thread: Barrel heat, and how it affects a waxed, lead, rimfire bullet?

  1. #1

    Barrel heat, and how it affects a waxed, lead, rimfire bullet?

    WWA friends:

    As we're shooting a card, or testing ammo, and the barrel starts to warm up as more and more rounds are fired, first the bullet sits momentarily at the hottest spot in the bore, then as it travels down the bore, the bore gets cooler and cooler.

    So the bullet is facing different temp extremes as it travels down the bore toward the muzzle.

    So the bullet is also facing different viscosties of wax that has been deposited in the bore by previous bullets.

    I wonder, if a feller could someway keep the bore cooler, from end to end, could it help waxed, lead bullet, rimfire accuracy?

    Your friend, Bill Calfee

  2. #2

    What if?

    What if?

    WWA friends:

    What if a rimfire barrel could be constructed that would help maintain the same bore temp, from the breech to the muzzle?

    How would these little, waxed, lead bullet, rimfire guns shoot, if the bore could be maintained at the same, or close to the same temp, as the waxed, lead bullets, passes through it ?

    What would happen, if a barrel could be constructed, that would have cooling fins located on the first 5 inches of the breech end of the barrel? This is the area that heats the most in our guns, as a card is fired.

    Is such a barrel possible? Oh, the questions that come to mind, as I'm sure most of my WWA friends are already thinking.......................

    What if?

    Oh, we ain't done......................................

    My WWA friends, did you ever have days in your life that you couldn't wait to get out of bed, so you could get started on some special project?

    That's me.................................tonight..

    Your old buddy, BC

  3. #3
    If you were to shoot 25 - 3 shot groups from a competetive rifle, would you expect the groups to open up as you progressed from target no. 1 to 25? If so, I would expect barrel heat to be one of several factors. On the other hand, if the groups remained tight, I would not expect barrel heat to be a concern.

    Silly idea, but what if you wound 1/4 inch tubing around the barrel and, using adapters, connected one end to a faucet or garden hose and turned it on. The continuing stream of cold water going through the tubing would keep the barrel the same temp. from breech to muzzle, shot after shot. Just thinkin'.

    Ken

  4. #4

    Friend Dupont Spinner

    Quote Originally Posted by DuPont Spinner View Post
    If you were to shoot 25 - 3 shot groups from a competetive rifle, would you expect the groups to open up as you progressed from target no. 1 to 25? If so, I would expect barrel heat to be one of several factors. On the other hand, if the groups remained tight, I would not expect barrel heat to be a concern.

    Silly idea, but what if you wound 1/4 inch tubing around the barrel and, using adapters, connected one end to a faucet or garden hose and turned it on. The continuing stream of cold water going through the tubing would keep the barrel the same temp. from breech to muzzle, shot after shot. Just thinkin'.

    Ken
    Friend Dupont spinner:

    It's not uncommon for a worn barrel to shoot better after it gets hot......

    But I'm curious as to what a new, killer class barrel would do if the bore could be kept close to the same temp from breech to muzzle.

    Some years ago Mike Mullins shot a gun with a water filled tube around the barrel. And he shot it good....he would put fresh, cold water in the tube right before he shot.

    Your friend, Bill Calfee

  5. #5
    Skiers change wax on their skis frequently depending on the snow temp and ambient temp as it makes a huge difference on how the skis slide on the snow/ice/water.

    The wax on bullets remains the same in all conditions and temperatures. The fellow who learns to wax his own bullets and develops the right wax for the right ambient temp and right barrel temp will be miles ahead of the rest who are simply hoping the ammo companies chose the right wax. It plays a much larger role than many give it credit for. That might be easier to accomplish than trying to keep the barrel at the same temp always.

  6. #6

    Friend ZedNut

    Quote Originally Posted by ZedNut View Post
    Also, for about 20-30$ one can purchase an IR scanning thermometer. This can be aimed at different parts of the barrel and quite accurately show the temperature changing as you shoot. You may have to put masking tape over the steel to prevent it from having an effect called emmisivity; reflective smooth surfaces like polished steel or glass will effect the actual readings of a IR thermometer a bit.
    Friend ZedNut:

    A friend gave me a heat gun some years ago and I use it all the time. I found out years ago that when I test ammo lots, I make sure I don't allow the barrel to become hotter than it would during a normal card. Having said that, I got fooled on a lot of ammo, last year, because i didn't pay attention to my own rules. I still have three bricks and it is not good, in any barrel, unless I burn 30 or 40 rounds quickly before attempting to work with it.

    I'm going to show a picture of something I'm experimenting with. I shot it last evening for the first time, terribly windy, but I was only interested to see if my heat differential between the breech end of the barrel and the muzzle end was helped by the cooling fins. Surprisingly it actually worked.

    For my WWA friends, this experiment is a long story, but the short version for now is: to do what I did here by machining cooling fins in the breech end of the barrel required that I re-lap the bore.....I was working with a barrel with a .2215" groove at the muzzle, .2217" groove at the breech so I had enough material to work with when I re-lapped..........if you did this to a barrel and didn't re-lap it, you'd ruin it......I want to make that clear.

    I'll discuss this further as I get to test more.

    Now the picture.......(I'm getting ready to paint my slave stock so don't pay any attention to it)

    Your friend, Bill Calfee


  7. #7
    I have a heat gun too Bill. Look at everthing with it. Blades of grass, windows, barrels, even used it to let some ammo heat up ten degrees hotter

    than other ammo once just to see if there's a difference. Kida addictive. You say "Surprisingly it actually worked." I kinda agree but I would

    expect it to work where the fins are and out a little futher. That's a heat sink, same concept as fluting, gives the barrel more area to cool. But

    what about on towards the end of the barrel, that's where I always found the greatest temp differential, which is just common sense if you think

    about it. Could you do an entire barrel that way? I bet that would be one cool running tube.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calfee View Post
    Friend ZedNut:

    A friend gave me a heat gun some years ago and I use it all the time. I found out years ago that when I test ammo lots, I make sure I don't allow the barrel to become hotter than it would during a normal card. Having said that, I got fooled on a lot of ammo, last year, because i didn't pay attention to my own rules. I still have three bricks and it is not good, in any barrel, unless I burn 30 or 40 rounds quickly before attempting to work with it.

    I'm going to show a picture of something I'm experimenting with. I shot it last evening for the first time, terribly windy, but I was only interested to see if my heat differential between the breech end of the barrel and the muzzle end was helped by the cooling fins. Surprisingly it actually worked.

    For my WWA friends, this experiment is a long story, but the short version for now is: to do what I did here by machining cooling fins in the breech end of the barrel required that I re-lap the bore.....I was working with a barrel with a .2215" groove at the muzzle, .2217" groove at the breech so I had enough material to work with when I re-lapped..........if you did this to a barrel and didn't re-lap it, you'd ruin it......I want to make that clear.

    I'll discuss this further as I get to test more.

    Now the picture.......(I'm getting ready to paint my slave stock so don't pay any attention to it)

    Your friend, Bill Calfee

    Friend Bill.....

    Judging by what I see, I'm impressed. I look forward to your testing of this.
    Common sense. It isn't quite so common, any more.

  9. #9

    Friend ZedNut

    Quote Originally Posted by ZedNut View Post
    Couple questions for you:

    How deep did you go on those grooves...possibly down to the barrel diameter in front of it? Also, when you mentioned re-lapping the bore after the outside machining, I am assuming that the bore gets effected in a similar (probably less extensive) way as if you had completely removed material on the barrel O.D.? Would that be a correct assumption. Can you feel an interrupted/ratchet effect on the slug because of the interrupted nature of the cooling grooves or are they close enough to each other to avoid that?

    Friend ZedNut:

    Yes, when you machine on the outside of a barrel, the bore is distorted, so it has to be lapped after any machining.......

    Yes, after the machining you could feel the bore changed when slugged......

    The enlarged section is .970".....the balance of the barrel is .825"........I cut the cooling grooves to exactly the same depth to a diameter of .840".......I did this for several reasons....

    First, I wanted to distort the bore in a very uniform way, if possible.....

    Second, after I run a bunch of heat tests, I can machine the barrel down to .825", removing the cooling fins and re-heat test to confirm that something is, or is not working.

    After I remove the cooling fins, I may, or may not be able to re-lap again, so I may kill the accuracy of the barrel, but I want to learn..........and, I may save it too........OH, I did get to shoot it again last evening in some pretty good conditions and it shoots rather good......

    There's a long story as to why I did this..........a lot of things came together at the same time and I decided to take advantage of them while I could..........

    I love to spearment......I love to learn.......

    Here's a couple more pictures......I have machined a Turbo tenon in my Flacon, keeping the good Falcon bedding footprint, which leaves the action face counterbored .250".......you can see by the picture......so not only is the barrel vented by the cooling fins, but the front of the action is also vented.....

    There's much more to the story.......I'll try to tell it all in the next several days.....

    Your friend, BC




  10. #10

    Question for Bill

    Hello Bill,
    I recently returned to shooting after a 15 year absence. Just retired recently and am revisiting an old hobby.
    I am suprised by the wealth of knowledge available today and thankful that there are people like you out there willing to share your ideas.
    I'm a real novice starting over but I am fascinated by the process of getting these barrels to shoot.

    After reading about how you are trying to regulate the temp of the bore by cutting these grooves and how cutting the grooves also has an effect on the bore diameter I had a thought.
    Would this also be practical way to regulate the inside taper of a bore or fine tune it by cutting these rings at different places and depths where needed along the length of the barrel?
    This may be way more work than it is worth and there are probably better ways to achieve the same result but your experiment made me think of it so I had to ask.

    Thanks,
    student Glen

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