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Thread: I'm about to scream....

  1. #1

    I'm about to scream....

    I'm about to scream....


    CYA friends:


    I've preached, begged, hollered and did everything I know, to get someone to produce a safe cleaning rod for stainless rimfire barrels, for the last 15 years.


    Tonight I witnessed the death of another absolute killer RFBR barrel, because of the cleaning rods we use.


    CYA friends, I've got mine.....I'm lucky to have two Parker Hale, carbon steel cleaning rods....



    But the rest of you ain't so lucky.....




    CYA friends, when is someone going to produce a safe cleaning rod for stainless steel barrels?


    Because today, we ain't got one...




    Your saddened friend, Bill Calfee


    ___________________


    PS;


    If your thinking:


    "Well Calfee, I ain't having no problem cleaning my stainless barrel..."


    Here's my answer:



    My friend, you ain't winning nothing either....


    CYA friends, 50%, or more, of the RFBR barrels in competition today, have some degree of bore damage from the use of faulty cleaning rods.

  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Breezy Eastern Kansas
    Posts
    18

    Parker Hale

    I finally took your advice a few weeks ago...surfed the web and found some Parḳer Hale cleaning rods in England. Price was reasonable for a good rod. Shipping was remarkably low. Shipping time was close to usual shipping times for U.S. products. It was surprisingly easy to remove the soft coating. I already had some “conversion” tips to use with 8x32tpi “normal” American tips. Occasionally as I watch tv I polish the shaft with 400 wet/dry sandpaper...will jump to 1000 soon. As a bonus the plastic tube used for shipping works well as a storage tube... a little hi density foam at each end and a couple of 1 3/8” chair leg protectors for end caps...
    Not positive if they are the same steel as yours, but it seems to be quite hard and not stainless steel.
    Last edited by Bn1; 5 Days Ago at 02:48 AM.

  3. #3

    Friend Bn1

    Quote Originally Posted by Bn1 View Post
    I finally took your advice a few weeks ago...surfed the web and found some Parḳer Hale cleaning rods in England. Price was reasonable for a good rod. Shipping was remarkably low. Shipping time was close to usual shipping times for U.S. products. It was surprisingly easy to remove the soft coating. I already had some “conversion” tips to use with 8x32tpi “normal” American tips. Occasionally as I watch tv I polish the shaft with 400 wet/dry sandpaper...will jump to 1000 soon. As a bonus the plastic tube used for shipping works well as a storage tube... a little hi density foam at each end and a couple of 1 3/8” chair leg protectors for end caps...
    Not positive if they are the same steel as yours, but it seems to be quite hard and not stainless steel.

    _________________



    Friend Bn1:


    I witnessed one very disappointed individual last evening.......


    Killer barrels like he "had" don't come down the pike every day.


    And I mean this barrel he had was "double killer".



    Bn1, a stainless bore can be cleaned a hundred times successfully, with a stainless cleaning rod........


    It only takes one slip-up to ruin a killer.



    Preventing that one slip-up is why we must have a properly executed, hard, highly polished carbon steel cleaning rod when working with stainless barrels.



    Your friend, BC

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Breezy Eastern Kansas
    Posts
    18

    Bore cleaning

    How should we clean the bore?
    1. Use a highly polished hard carbon steel cleaning rod.
    2. Should we always pull a brush when removing cl build up...
    Pull from the muzzle or from the breech?
    3. When cleaning the bore should we:
    A. Use a jag and push:
    a. From the breech
    b. From the muzzle
    c. Doesn’t matter
    B. Use a patch holder and pull:
    a. From the breech
    b. From the muzzle
    c. Doesn’t matter

    P.s. I think the proper fitting bore brushes for removing cl build up are still available on EBay. I will send you one I just bought for you to try.
    Last edited by Bn1; 4 Days Ago at 02:02 PM.

  5. #5

    Friend Bn1

    Quote Originally Posted by Bn1 View Post
    How should we clean the bore?
    1. Use a highly polished hard carbon steel cleaning rod.
    2. Should we always pull a brush when removing cl build up...
    Pull from the muzzle or from the breech?
    3. When cleaning the bore should we:
    A. Use a jag and push:
    a. From the breech
    b. From the muzzle
    c. Doesn’t matter
    B. Use a patch holder and pull:
    a. From the breech
    b. From the muzzle
    c. Doesn’t matter

    P.s. I think the proper fitting bore brushes for removing cl build up are still available on EBay. I will send you one I just bought for you to try.


    _________________________



    Friend Bn1:


    I highlighted your No.1.


    Yes we need a cleaning rod like this.


    Are we ever going to get it?


    After all these years of me hollering, screaming, complaining, begging, showing examples of folks ruining their killer barrels, including two I ruined, I doubt it.


    Your friend, BC


    _________________________


    PS:


    Bn1, I'm going to start a new thread....


    Titled: Are we cleaning the bore too much?

  6. #6

    Friend Bn1

    Quote Originally Posted by Bn1 View Post
    How should we clean the bore?
    1. Use a highly polished hard carbon steel cleaning rod.
    2. Should we always pull a brush when removing cl build up...
    Pull from the muzzle or from the breech?

    3. When cleaning the bore should we:
    A. Use a jag and push:
    a. From the breech
    b. From the muzzle
    c. Doesn’t matter
    B. Use a patch holder and pull:
    a. From the breech
    b. From the muzzle
    c. Doesn’t matter

    P.s. I think the proper fitting bore brushes for removing cl build up are still available on EBay. I will send you one I just bought for you to try.

    ___________________________



    Friend Bn1:


    Your No. 2



    I would never push a brush through the bore.


    I recommend that all CYankees pull their brush through the bore.


    I insert my cleaning rod into the bore, chamber end of course, then push it out through the muzzle, screw on a brush, that I've balanced, then add cleaning solvent, then carefully start the brush in the muzzle and pull it back through the bore and out through the chamber.


    Repeat if necessary.


    Some common sense:


    If one pushed a brush through the bore, not only are you taking a big risk of damaging the bore, you're pushing the CL ring material through the bore.


    When you pull the brush back through the bore, you greatly reduce the chance of bore damage, plus, you're pulling the CL ring material back out through the chamber.


    Your friend, BC

  7. #7

    What makes you scream

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calfee View Post
    I'm about to scream....

    Tonight I witnessed the death of another absolute killer RFBR barrel, because of the cleaning rods we use.

    Hi Bill, What part of the barrel you have inspected has been damaged by this "no safe" cleaning rod ? is it just the effect of pushing the rod with an angle or it is the fact that either the brush or the jag + patch are too hard to slide and it twists the rod ?

  8. #8

    Friend tentoten

    Quote Originally Posted by tentoten View Post
    Hi Bill, What part of the barrel you have inspected has been damaged by this "no safe" cleaning rod ? is it just the effect of pushing the rod with an angle or it is the fact that either the brush or the jag + patch are too hard to slide and it twists the rod ?

    _______________


    Friend tentoten:


    It would be impossible to know the exact position of the rod and patch when this damaged occurred. I'm talking about how much deflection of the rod was being caused by the tightness, or unbalanced state, of the patch on the jag.


    The owner of this once killer ratchet, and I, have discussed this at length trying to determine exactly what happened.



    Here's the story:


    This ratchet had just been post chamber lapped.


    The bore was pristine.


    The owner had range tested this ratchet, after the post chamber lap, and the thing simply walked the dog.


    Bad would be an understatement for how this ratchet shot after the post chamber lap.



    The damage had to have occurred during the last cleaning at that test session.


    By the way, the damage is to the top of one land, and runs the length of the bore.......more pronounced in the breech.


    And something most interesting:


    The groove, in the land top, stops just short of the exit of the leade........


    This leads me to believe the damage happened on the forward stroke, starting just as the patch got far enough into the bore to start deflecting the rod.


    __________________



    Anyway, the owner of this ruined barrel was kind enough to volunteer to test the new 4 groove Muller I've been fooling with, on one of his contraptions.


    (Time out.....there can't be a single person reading this that doesn't know, by now, that Jeff Patterson is the owner of this ruined barrel....)


    So Jeff comes to my shop, without any idea his killer ratchet has been damaged, and we remove the barrel to install my Muller for him to test.


    While we had Jeff's ratchet off, I looked at the chamber end with my loupe.........and my heart sank......


    I said to Jeff, I hate to tell you this, but this barrel is ruined.


    Jeff then viewed the chamber, and you talk about someone being heartbroken.



    And it was ruined, because after Jeff tested my Muller he put the ratchet back on and it did not shoot......he even let me shoot several rounds, and it simply would not shoot.



    ____________________



    How do we know the groove was cut in the top of that land after Jeff post chamber lapped this ratchet?



    We know because a slug pushed through the bore shows a stripe in the land cut in the slug, caused by this groove.


    This means that the groove has a raised edge to it, which causes the stripe to be cut in the slug.


    If the groove had been in the land top before, or while, Jeff was post chamber lapping, the sharp edge would have been removed, and there would be no stripe in the slug, even with the groove present.




    And then the shooting itself indicates the damage was done the last time Jeff cleaned the ratchet after his killer test session.


    Because the thing simply killed it, then after that final cleaning it would not shoot in a bucket.



    We need a hard, highly polished, carbon steel cleaning rod for cleaning our stainless barrels, or this killing of fine bores will continue.



    Your friend, BC


    _______________


    PS:


    This fine ratchet might not be totally lost....


    I suggested to Jeff that he cast another lap and work on that groove.....


    It's too deep to ever remove it completely, but, the lapping will remove the sharp edge, plus, it will bring the groove back completely through the exit of the leade.


    The damage on the muzzle end can be removed by the lapping, and the groove diameter of this ratchet is still small enough for Jeff to have some material to work with.


    I'm going to make a prediction here:

    If Jeff takes his time, there's a very good chance he'll bring this fine ratchet back.
    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 2 Days Ago at 01:17 PM.

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