Are we cleaning the bore too much?

Bill Calfee

Gun Fool
Are we cleaning the bore too much?


CYA friends:


Another absolutely killer RFBR stainless barrel bit the dust yesterday, from being cleaned using a stainless cleaning rod.


How many killer stainless RFBR barrels must we ruin, with stainless cleaning rods, before we finally wake up?


I give up, cause I'm wore out trying to get a proper cleaning rod produced.



__________________________



Having said the above:


Robert "Paladin" Oates won the 2018, IR-50 Indoor Unlimited National Championship, now get this:



Without ever cleaning the bore of Paladin for the entire championships.



No, he didn't even push a wet patch through the bore after each card.


Robert won the 2018, IR-50 Indoor Unlimited National Championship, without ever having a cleaning rod in the bore after he fired the first round of competition.


He put Paladin away after each card with the bore dirty.


When he started his next card, the bore was still dirty from the last card.



Are we actually cleaning the bore too much?


Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
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spring steel high carbon 10 x

Mr Bill, I use a 10x spring steel cleaning rod and was wondering if it is the proper material. these rods were almost impossible to get and I haven't seen another one. seeing no damage at all with borescope but I sweat every time I clean, also use 6mm brushes and borerider delrin adapters
 
As far as I’m concerned

Are we cleaning the bore too much?


CYA friends:


Another absolutely killer RFBR stainless barrel bit the dust yesterday, from being cleaned using a stainless cleaning rod.


How many killer stainless RFBR barrels must we ruin, with stainless cleaning rods, before we finally wake up?


I give up, cause I'm wore out trying to get a proper cleaning rod produced.



__________________________



Having said the above:


Robert "Paladin" Oates won the 2018, IR-50 Indoor Unlimited National Championship, now get this:



Without ever cleaning the bore of Paladin for the entire championships.



No, he didn't even push a wet patch through the bore after each card.


Robert won the 2018, IR-50 Indoor Unlimited National Championship, without ever having a cleaning rod in the bore after he fired the first round of competition.


He put Paladin away after each card with the bore dirty.


When he started his next card, the bore was still dirty from the last card.



Are we actually cleaning the bore too much?


Your friend, Bill Calfee

Most people clean too much. I’m a nobody in this sport but when I did my best shooting with my old 52E I just shoved a dry patch after each card. Probably two dry patches at the end. I’ve got two pretty fair rifles right now with barrels I’ve put on. One is a ratchet the other a Muller 4 MI. I clean them with my dry patch method. The Muller has a bunch of rounds thru it. I don’t intend to change.
Jerry Halcomb
 
CYA friends

CYA friends:


You know, after all these years one topic that still draws a great deal of attention is how to properly, read safely, clean the bore of a stainless, match grade rimfire barrel.


And there's a very good reason for this:



We do not have a safe cleaning rod, today......which is a tragedy.........a true tragedy since killing killer RFBR barrels is most certainly a tragedy.

____________________________


Friend Jsmith:

I was hoping the 10-X rod was going to be the answer.....but, I've never seen one.

TKH did send me a sample of the rod material, which was good.

__________________________


Friend Brian:

There's only one "safe" cleaning rod for stainless rimfire barrels:

A hard, highly polished carbon steel rod. ( even these can kill a rimfire bore if misused)
___________________________________


Friend Jerry Halcomb:

You clean exactly the way I did when I competed.


I usually kept my cleaning rod on the bench....

The second I fired my last round, I removed my breech bolt, picked up the rod and a dry patch, then eased the dry patch through the bore.

I did this while sitting quietly at my bench, so as not to disturb the other shooters.


Here's my rules for doing this:


This must be done within seconds of firing the last round.

If the range rules prevented, or the bench top size was too small, so as to prevent me from cleaning at the bench, I sat there and fired a fouler every 30 seconds, or so, until the match was over, then I cleaned the bore.


I kept this cleaning method up until one of two things occurred:


Either accuracy deteriorated, or, the breech bolt started to close hard.......both caused by the CL build up...


I then pulled a brush, with solvent, through the bore a couple times, or more, depending......then a wet patch followed by dry.



________________________


Friend Tad E:


There's two ways to look at your question:


How many rounds before the bore needs cleaning:


Or, how many rounds before the bore wears out?


1. How many rounds before one of my builds needs the bore cleaned?


There's so many factors involved, that that would be a difficult question to answer.


When Robert "Paladin" Oates won last years IR-50 Unlimited, Indoor National Championship, I bet he put a brick through Paladin, with never a cleaning rod in the bore.


Back when I was on the New Albany High School Rifle Team, we cleaned the bore of our Model 52 Winchesters two times a year.


We cleaned them when they were taken out of the safe, at the start of the season, and then again when they were returned to the safe when the season was over.


2. How many rounds can be put through the bore of one of my builds before accuracy becomes noncompetitive?


That's also a tough question to answer.


Here's the way I'd rate the barrel life of some of the barrels I've used over the years......assuming properly cared for and never damaged:


I'm listing from the longest lived, to the shortest, and, these are some of the most popular barrels.


Lilja 6 groove......(highest)


Shilen ratchet and Broughton 4 or 5 C


Muller 4-MI and Shilen octagon.


_________________________


Douglas 6 groove barrels are long lived.....and I used a bunch of them, especially on my sportas.


Broughton traditional rifled barrels are long lived.


Your friend, BC


______________________


PS:


While it's on my mind I want to add something.


I only use my Parker Hale rods with patches........


I use my Myers rod, stainless, to pull brushes.


Here's the reason for only using the PH rods for patches:



The PH rod has a male metric thread on the end....


There's a brass collar right behind this thread for the Jag and adapter for American threads to shoulder against, to keep them parallel with the rod.


When you remove the coating from the PH rod, this brass collar must also be removed so a close fitting bore guide can be used.



When this collar is removed, the jag or adapter for American threads loses the shoulder for it to center against, so the jag is usually no longer perfectly parallel to the rod.


So I had to work on the jag to get it in perfect alignment, then I epoxied it to the end of the rod.

Therefore, I only use my PH rods for patch work.
 
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Bill,

It's an opinion but I think most people clean to much and too hard. I use a polished hard stainless rod coated with an anti galling coating that is supposed to bind with the steel. It does make the rod slicker and has no noticeable residue. It will last easily through a match Given the brand I have confidence in the stuff. I've kind of fallen into the trap of you must at least wet patch after each card but I'm going back to the way I used to clean which is essentially what Jerry mentioned and more or less what you recommended years ago.

I don't know if the 10-X rod is still made but I ordered two and promptly returned them. They were very easy to bend, so soft I guess. I guess old Parker Hale rods are carbon steel but other than that I don't know of any or at least any good ones. Carbon fiber is hard and the ones I've seen are rough, they scare me to death. Coated seems popular but I feel the risk is at least as much with one of those as with a hard polished stainless rod.

I think there is some risk we have to accept; I don't see a choice. But, while an accident would be easy, the barrels I've seen destroyed by cleaning were predictable.

WS
 
I see some folks cleaning like they are trying to start a chain saw. Way too scary for me.
Push a patch and pull a brush, slow and smooth...
I always felt that slow and smooth is less likely to bend a rod enough to contact the rifling.

Glen H
 
Bill..

Years ago, before he died, Bill Meyers made a cleaning rod that, if I remember rightly, you spoke very highly of.. Bill Meyers cleaning rods were not cheap, I believe that he charged $100.00 for them... I was lucky enough to buy two of his cleaning rods and I wonder what you think of his cleaning rods today?? Are they still considered to be one of the "safe" rods you talk about..??

Thanks

Dave
 
Friend Dave S

Bill..

Years ago, before he died, Bill Meyers made a cleaning rod that, if I remember rightly, you spoke very highly of.. Bill Meyers cleaning rods were not cheap, I believe that he charged $100.00 for them... I was lucky enough to buy two of his cleaning rods and I wonder what you think of his cleaning rods today?? Are they still considered to be one of the "safe" rods you talk about..??

Thanks

Dave


___________________


Friend Dave S:


From one member of the Club of 1992' to another:


I only use my Myers rod for pulling brushes, today.


For patch work I use my Parker Hale, so as to have the best chance of not ruining another bore.


The Myers rod is stainless......


The main thing it has going for it is its hardness, which helps, but, still doesn't overcome the fact of it being stainless for doing safe patch work.



Dave, you and mama both are members of the Club of 92'.


Your friend, BC



_______________


PS:


Dave, I have two Myers rods....


I pull brushes with one and the other I converted to my #1 lapping rod, because of its hardness....



There's no issue with lapping a stainless barrel with a good hard stainless rod.



_______________________________


An aside:


When Bill Myers brought out his cleaning rod he sent me one to evaluate.


Even though it was stainless, I gave it good marks because of its hardness, and, for the fact it was very well constructed.


Back then I thought, mistakenly, that the hardness might overcome the stainless issue.


But I was wrong......


The last "killer" bore I ruined was with my Myers rod....


It cold welded to the bore while I was pushing a patch...


______________________


When Bill passed away I did a doodle and sent it to his wife...

She sent me the nicest thank you letter.


DSC03312.jpg
 
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Posts not working.

Mr. Calfee, your 2 posts on cleaning rod poll and are we making to much on this cleaning rod vs. bore damage do not come through....error message 503 shows up. Perhaps one of your techies can explain what is happening and/or fix it.
 
Friend Bn1

Mr. Calfee, your 2 posts on cleaning rod poll and are we making to much on this cleaning rod vs. bore damage do not come through....error message 503 shows up. Perhaps one of your techies can explain what is happening and/or fix it.


___________________


Friend Bn1:


The head techie, Wally, is going to get the issue resolved.


I talked to him today about it....


Something else I mentioned to Wally:


About his upcoming story of watching his new V-3 be evaluated.


During the whole time I evaluated his new V-3 I made very few comments about what I was actually doing.


Foster asked some questions, which I answered, but Wally never asked a single question, or, made any comments.


And he didn't take any notes.



Therefore, it's going to be most interesting to read his story.


When we talked today I reminded him that I didn't prompt him in any way......not even today...


And he agreed.....


_____________________



Now, there's some things I want to say about the evaluation, but, I'll wait until Wally does his article.


Your friend, BC
 
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