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Thread: Bill Calfee, Sporter barrel questions......

  1. #1

    Bill Calfee, Sporter barrel questions......

    Howdy Bill,
    On another thread there is a picture posted of a sporter barrel with a measuring tape on it. The barrel is 25 inches long. Sorta looks like you get around 22 inches of bore length out of it by the time you back bore it.

    Curiosity kills cats and Gregs. Have you ever tried a longer sporter profile? I realize the object of the exercise on a sporter is to save weight, but would a longer barrel give more "coast" to the bullet and be advantageous if you used a longer sporter profile on a rifle not necessarily intended to be a sporter?

    Have you considered using a sporter barrel on a MD PAS triple lug pistol?

    Take care,

    Greg

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by 404tbang View Post
    Howdy Bill,
    On another thread there is a picture posted of a sporter barrel with a measuring tape on it. The barrel is 25 inches long. Sorta looks like you get around 22 inches of bore length out of it by the time you back bore it.

    Curiosity kills cats and Gregs. Have you ever tried a longer sporter profile? I realize the object of the exercise on a sporter is to save weight, but would a longer barrel give more "coast" to the bullet and be advantageous if you used a longer sporter profile on a rifle not necessarily intended to be a sporter?

    Have you considered using a sporter barrel on a MD PAS triple lug pistol?

    Take care,

    Greg

    _______________________________


    Friend 404tbang:


    Let's allow Maurice Hassard to celebrate his 2019, WRABF Championship first, then we'll get back to specifics of sporta barrels.....


    Your friend, Bill Calfee


    Maurice Hassard, 2019, WRABF Rimfire World Champion......

    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:10 PM.

  3. #3

    Friend 404tbang

    Quote Originally Posted by 404tbang View Post
    Howdy Bill,
    On another thread there is a picture posted of a sporter barrel with a measuring tape on it. The barrel is 25 inches long. Sorta looks like you get around 22 inches of bore length out of it by the time you back bore it.

    Curiosity kills cats and Gregs. Have you ever tried a longer sporter profile? I realize the object of the exercise on a sporter is to save weight, but would a longer barrel give more "coast" to the bullet and be advantageous if you used a longer sporter profile on a rifle not necessarily intended to be a sporter?

    Have you considered using a sporter barrel on a MD PAS triple lug pistol?

    Take care,

    Greg

    ____________________



    Friend 404tbang:


    That 25 inch blank, in the picture, will result in slightly under 21 inches of "actual" bore length.......



    That's about all one can get with a 7 1/2 lb weight limit, and enough weight in front of the crown to stop the muzzle.



    As I understand it, the WRABF sporta rules allow 8 1/2 pounds......


    In that case there's an extra pound to put in the barrel.....


    So, some creative barrel maker will probably produce a longer version of the Calfee 2nd gen sporta profile.


    The 2nd gen profile is so much better than my original sporta profile, because there's no reverse taper in it.....which makes it easier to properly taper lap.



    You asked about fitting a sporter profile to one of the new MD-PAS triple pistols?


    I've done that in the past.....



    Please keep something in mind about this:


    To get the big end needed for the MD, the barrel maker has to start with a 1.150" diameter blank.


    So there's a bunch of profiling done to these blanks, which distorts the bore, which makes taper lapping them, properly, more difficult than a straight profile blank.


    And it's so much simpler to add an adjustable MD, than to have to stop the muzzle by manipulating the barrel through the machining process.



    ______________________________



    Maurice Hassard, and little Deputy Sheriff, made an interesting statement at the 2019 WRABF.


    Friend merekp stated that the little Deputy was unaltered, save for baseless scope mounting.



    Which means it's still a legal, IR-50 7 1/2 pound sporta, with round bottom fore end on the stock.


    I heard the round bottom fore end is not required on WRABF sportas'..........and they can weigh 8 1/2 lbs.


    Which clearly makes the statement that 8 1/2 pounds is not really an asset, nor is the flat bottom fore end, for WRABF sportas'.


    Your friend, BC

  4. #4

    Just received an interesting letter..

    Just received an interesting letter..


    CYA friends:


    404tbang asked some interesting questions about my sportas'.


    And out of the blue I just received an interesting letter from Joe Jarrell.


    I believe it will pretty much explain itself.


    ( I did block out some personal comments, and Joe's contact info.....I don't think he'll mind me sharing his letter with you folks )










    _________________________



    I will add some additional details of Joe's P94 Sako, IR-50 sporta:



    Like he says, the action is a P94 Sako in butternut by Horsley...


    Now here's a couple of biggies:


    The barrel is a 6 groove Lilja standard bore, now get this........ it is only .700" in diameter, straight profile, and between 23 and 24 inches long.


    And it uses no muzzle device......


    Your friend, BC

  5. #5

    This may not be the test target....

    This may not be the test target....


    CYA friends:


    I posted this test target a few days ago, that I felt pretty sure was the first test of Deputy Sheriff....


    I've been researching some more and re-living memories of building the little Deputy.


    I'm not as sure now that this is the first test target.


    It may be.....


    I wish I'd had labeled this picture....









    The barrel on Deputy is a Calfee 2nd gen sporta, ratchet by Shilen.


    I wanted to get all the bore length possible, so I decided to configure the MD weight head in a unique manner.


    I did a bunch of weight calculating and figured I could gain bore length by making the weight head smaller by using the extreme front end of the blank......

    Normally about .900" is removed.


    So I machined the small weight head, which meant I had to back bore deeper than normal.....


    To get the small weight head, meant I had to remove some of the enlarged muzzle section of the blank behind it....


    CYA members are sophisticated, so I know some of you are thinking about now:


    If you reduced the diameter of the enlarged front end, behind the small weight head, wouldn't this have opened up the bore at the muzzle?


    And the answer is, yes.


    I almost outfoxed myself trying to gain actual bore length, because the depth of my back bore, to stop the muzzle, would not have cleaned up the degrading of the bore from the reduction.


    I slugged the bore, after turning the small weight head, and there was going to be about .200" difference, if I remember correctly.


    So I cast a lap and re-worked the muzzle end of the blank....


    When I re-slugged the bore I found I could have made the actual bore length even longer...


    But, I had to have enough back bore length to stop the muzzle with the small weight head.


    Bottom line:


    Little Deputy started killing it the first time the Duck Hawk competed......


    And now Maurice Hassard has won the World with it, here in 2019'.


    Your friend, BC





    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:52 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calfee View Post

    ____________________



    Friend 404tbang:


    That 25 inch blank, in the picture, will result in slightly under 21 inches of "actual" bore length.......



    That's about all one can get with a 7 1/2 lb weight limit, and enough weight in front of the crown to stop the muzzle.



    As I understand it, the WRABF sporta rules allow 8 1/2 pounds......


    In that case there's an extra pound to put in the barrel.....


    So, some creative barrel maker will probably produce a longer version of the Calfee 2nd gen sporta profile.


    The 2nd gen profile is so much better than my original sporta profile, because there's no reverse taper in it.....which makes it easier to properly taper lap.



    You asked about fitting a sporter profile to one of the new MD-PAS triple pistols?


    I've done that in the past.....



    Please keep something in mind about this:


    To get the big end needed for the MD, the barrel maker has to start with a 1.150" diameter blank.


    So there's a bunch of profiling done to these blanks, which distorts the bore, which makes taper lapping them, properly, more difficult than a straight profile blank.


    And it's so much simpler to add an adjustable MD, than to have to stop the muzzle by manipulating the barrel through the machining process.



    ______________________________



    Maurice Hassard, and little Deputy Sheriff, made an interesting statement at the 2019 WRABF.


    Friend merekp stated that the little Deputy was unaltered, save for baseless scope mounting.



    Which means it's still a legal, IR-50 7 1/2 pound sporta, with round bottom fore end on the stock.


    I heard the round bottom fore end is not required on WRABF sportas'..........and they can weigh 8 1/2 lbs.


    Which clearly makes the statement that 8 1/2 pounds is not really an asset, nor is the flat bottom fore end, for WRABF sportas'.


    Your friend, BC
    Howdy Bill,

    Thanks for all the info! I have been thinking more and more about how light equipment can get and still have EVERY BIT of the accuracy of heavier rifles.

    I still have, echoing in my head, some of the posts you've made about putting your pistol and everything you need in an AR bag and putting it in the truck.

    That followup post discussing Joe Jarrell's Sako with a .700 straight profile barrel caught my attention, too.

    How light do you think a pistol could be built that would still have every bit of the accuracy of a heavier rifle? I'm not suggesting a weight limit. I'd think all the barrel length gettable (technical term) would be a plus. A .700 straight profile barrel would also be a plus if that can be had. I'd think a longer barrel in a .700 profile would be very useful. I would not want to lighten the action by making unsightly cuts on it. I've seen hunting rifles so cut down that they are flat out ugly. As you once said about accurate rifles, it don't hurt a bit if they are pretty.

    Not having to carry around a separate rifle rest would be of benefit........

    So, how light could a pistol be made and still be every bit as accurate as the heavier rifles? Can it be made too light, to the point it would be difficult to shoot it as well as a heavier pistol?

    Take care,

    Greg

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calfee View Post
    This may not be the test target....


    CYA friends:


    I posted this test target a few days ago, that I felt pretty sure was the first test of Deputy Sheriff....


    I've been researching some more and re-living memories of building the little Deputy.


    I'm not as sure now that this is the first test target.


    It may be.....


    I wish I'd had labeled this picture....









    The barrel on Deputy is a Calfee 2nd gen sporta, ratchet by Shilen.


    I wanted to get all the bore length possible, so I decided to configure the MD weight head in a unique manner.


    I did a bunch of weight calculating and figured I could gain bore length by making the weight head smaller by using the extreme front end of the blank......

    Normally about .900" is removed.


    So I machined the small weight head, which meant I had to back bore deeper than normal.....


    To get the small weight head, meant I had to remove some of the enlarged muzzle section of the blank behind it....


    CYA members are sophisticated, so I know some of you are thinking about now:


    If you reduced the diameter of the enlarged front end, behind the small weight head, wouldn't this have opened up the bore at the muzzle?


    And the answer is, yes.


    I almost outfoxed myself trying to gain actual bore length, because the depth of my back bore, to stop the muzzle, would not have cleaned up the degrading of the bore from the reduction.


    I slugged the bore, after turning the small weight head, and there was going to be about .200" difference, if I remember correctly.


    So I cast a lap and re-worked the muzzle end of the blank....


    When I re-slugged the bore I found I could have made the actual bore length even longer...


    But, I had to have enough back bore length to stop the muzzle with the small weight head.


    Bottom line:


    Little Deputy started killing it the first time the Duck Hawk competed......


    And now Maurice Hassard has won the World with it, here in 2019'.


    Your friend, BC





    Bill,

    I cannot imagine how proud you were of Tim and the work he did with this little rifle.

    And now, with Maurice winning the World's with it, I cannot imagine how proud you are of him as well.

    I cannot imagine how proud you are of this little rifle. By the use of the word "proud", I certainly don't mean in a sinful sense. You did good work, and so did they. Has to be a good feeling, for Tim, Maurice, and you.

    Take care,

    Greg

  8. #8

    Absolutely...

    Quote Originally Posted by 404tbang View Post
    Bill,

    I cannot imagine how proud you were of Tim and the work he did with this little rifle.

    And now, with Maurice winning the World's with it, I cannot imagine how proud you are of him as well.


    I cannot imagine how proud you are of this little rifle. By the use of the word "proud", I certainly don't mean in a sinful sense. You did good work, and so did they. Has to be a good feeling, for Tim, Maurice, and you.

    Take care,

    Greg

    __________________________



    Friend 404tbang:


    Absolutely.....


    I was proud of the ole Hawk and how he killed it with little Deputy, and the same now for Maurice......




    Bang, the ole Hawk calls you Bang........


    I spent a wonderful evening at the range today.....


    Your friend, BC





    I did some "slinging" this evening with my new MD-PAS triple pistol.....like I used to do back when I competed.....


    This thing is so kool.........


    I shot some red 1073 speed from 2011 that Robert Oates sent me..........this thing shoots anything....




    And I love the left port, although I didn't think I would, at first......

    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:46 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calfee View Post

    __________________________



    Friend 404tbang:


    Absolutely.....


    I was proud of the ole Hawk and how he killed it with little Deputy, and the same now for Maurice......




    Bang, the ole Hawk calls you Bang........


    I spent a wonderful evening at the range today.....


    Your friend, BC





    I did some "slinging" this evening with my new MD-PAS triple pistol.....like I used to do back when I competed.....


    This thing is so kool.........


    I shot some red 1073 speed from 2011 that Robert Oates sent me..........this thing shoots anything....




    And I love the left port, although I didn't think I would, at first......

    Howdy Bill,

    Man, that thing looks like pure fun! You know, this will sound weird.............even as a left hander I'm sorta thinking that little pistol would easy to shoot. I remember awhile back several folks on here had a discussion about which would be the better configuration for right and left hand shooters. I've shot my old Eric Johnson Remington 37 loading it from the left and right both, and it's really not much of a difference that I can tell. Of course, that open port makes it easier for me to load as a southpaw loading it from the left. Shooting that pistol would likely mean that it's a bit of a challenge to get used to loading as a left hander. Maybe. Maybe not.

    I'd still like to one day shoot a left bolt, right port rimfire benchrest rifle just to see how the rest of the world gets to experience it. But that pistol could be ordered up different ways by left and right handers and they'd likely find that they are not hard to get used to in any configuration.

    I'd think you really could "sling" that through a condition pretty quickly. It simply has to be faster than a rifle.

    Sure does look cool, too!

    There are numerous appealing things about shooting a pistol like that. Not giving up a thing on accuracy against a rifle is number one. Not having as much weight to tote around is another. That's a little hard for me to say since I've always loved rifles. Not having to tote around as much weight in gear is a huge plus.

    I think Bob Finger said it best once on one of these forums. If I recall right, someone let him shoot one of your XP's. He said something to the effect of "you could load everything you need to shoot that thing in a Corvette and still have enough room for a Blond!".

    Man alive, I can easily see how shooting one of those pistols could get a feller hooked on them! I gotta quit looking at these pics you post! Nah, that won't work.

    Take care,

    Greg

  10. #10

    Friend 404tbang

    Friend 404tbang



    Friend 404tbang:


    Slinging........



    If you look closely at the orange flag hanging in the edge of the woods, on the left, you can see it's not hanging dead limp.


    There was a slow, rolling, optical condition from 10 to 4 that evening....


    If I held the cross hairs on the dot, I'd get a couple of plug 100's or line licker 50's at 4 o'clock, then cut the dot out, then up to 10 for a couple more line licker 50's or plug 100's......


    The optical condition made that little figure 8 from 4 to 10 over and over.....


    So, as soon as I cut the dot out, knowing the condition was headed for 10, I quickly held low in the 100 ring, favoring 4 o'clock, and started slinging.


    I simply cut the dot out of the next five bulls.......in about 12-13 seconds........the last shot of the five favoring 4 o'clock....


    The cross hair never fully settled..........as soon as it crossed my spot I jerked the trigger.



    Then I went back to very deliberate holding and did the old 4 to 10 thing again.


    By the way, the last thing that crossed my mind as I was slinging, was the trigger.





    ___________________________



    Bang, the Duck Hawk likes to call you Bang.....



    You know one of the most fascinating things about these pistols.............that's all there is.

    You're looking at everything.....there ain't no more, save for a cleaning rod.





    And if a shooter can point the thing, they can win any match in the world.


    Like our buddy Foster got a glimpse of, at Livonia last Saturday.....



    Your friend BC

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