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Thread: Gun Fool

  1. #1

    Gun Fool

    Gun fool


    Thank you Wally.



    CYA friends, I'm repeating this thread, from another forum, here on this new Gun Fool Forum, plus some additional pictures.


    ______________________________



    Friend Timo, from one "gun fool" to another...


    Friend Timo:



    This old gun fool mounted the 45 comp on my 40-X pistol and went to the range last evening.


    I took the ammo I'd re-waxed with the wax that you sent, plus a regular box.






    I dipped a bullet in the wax, then took my thumb and first finger and rubbed it smoothly around the bullet, all the way back to, and including, the case mouth.


    If you note, for some reason a lot of Eley ammo has the crimp ring run dry, no wax.....why?.......I don't know.



    Then I removed as much wax as I could from the tip of the bullet.


    In short, I tried to put a good film of wax from the front driving band back all the way past the mouth of the case.


    __________________________________



    Here's the target:


    I sighted the 45 comp in on the three bulls at the bottom of the target.


    I then fired the regular Eley first.........( I fired some foulers to the right side of the backer).

    There is no such thing as shooting return to battery with a pistol......so I simply fired five foulers as quickly as possible at the right.


    Then I fired three, 5-shot groups.



    I then did the same thing with the re-waxed bullets, after I'd cleaned and dried the bore.






    Your friend, Bill Calfee



    _______________________________



    CYA friends:


    I gave my little 40-X pistol a good cleaning........and got to looking at it...


    The little thing is stout.......


    But.....................................


    Now that I actually have a MD-PAS "Turbo" pistol, I just can't keep myself wrapped around this little 40-X pistol like I would if I didn't have my new Turbo pistol.


    But the little thing is most certainly stout....







    By the way:


    I used to put a crossbar on my pistol legs........to stiffen them...


    But, I actually like the way I've done the legs for both this 40-X pistol and my Turbo pistol better.......



    The legs for this 40-X pistol were developing some surface rust.......


    It was so nice to be able to unbolt the legs and spin them in the drill press to polish them....


    And they're plenty stiff........just as stiff as my crossbar legs, actually.......



    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calfee View Post
    Gun fool


    Thank you Wally.



    CYA friends, I'm repeating this thread, from another forum, here on this new Gun Fool Forum, plus some additional pictures.


    ______________________________



    Friend Timo, from one "gun fool" to another...


    Friend Timo:



    This old gun fool mounted the 45 comp on my 40-X pistol and went to the range last evening.


    I took the ammo I'd re-waxed with the wax that you sent, plus a regular box.






    I dipped a bullet in the wax, then took my thumb and first finger and rubbed it smoothly around the bullet, all the way back to, and including, the case mouth.


    If you note, for some reason a lot of Eley ammo has the crimp ring run dry, no wax.....why?.......I don't know.



    Then I removed as much wax as I could from the tip of the bullet.


    In short, I tried to put a good film of wax from the front driving band back all the way past the mouth of the case.


    __________________________________



    Here's the target:


    I sighted the 45 comp in on the three bulls at the bottom of the target.


    I then fired the regular Eley first.........( I fired some foulers to the right side of the backer).

    There is no such thing as shooting return to battery with a pistol......so I simply fired five foulers as quickly as possible at the right.


    Then I fired three, 5-shot groups.



    I then did the same thing with the re-waxed bullets, after I'd cleaned and dried the bore.






    Your friend, Bill Calfee



    _______________________________



    CYA friends:


    I gave my little 40-X pistol a good cleaning........and got to looking at it...


    The little thing is stout.......


    But.....................................


    Now that I actually have a MD-PAS "Turbo" pistol, I just can't keep myself wrapped around this little 40-X pistol like I would if I didn't have my new Turbo pistol.


    But the little thing is most certainly stout....







    By the way:


    I used to put a crossbar on my pistol legs........to stiffen them...


    But, I actually like the way I've done the legs for both this 40-X pistol and my Turbo pistol better.......



    The legs for this 40-X pistol were developing some surface rust.......


    It was so nice to be able to unbolt the legs and spin them in the drill press to polish them....


    And they're plenty stiff........just as stiff as my crossbar legs, actually.......




    Howdy Bill,

    I keep looking at the pic of the groups.

    To me it looks as if the wax may have helped reduce the flippers.

    What am I missing?


    Take care,

    Greg

  3. #3

    Friend 404tbang

    Quote Originally Posted by 404tbang View Post
    Howdy Bill,

    I keep looking at the pic of the groups.


    To me it looks as if the wax may have helped reduce the flippers.

    What am I missing?


    Take care,

    Greg



    ___________________________



    Friend 404tbang:



    Me too........



    I don't know exactly what to make of it.....


    Three groups?.................is this a game changer, or, blind luck for three groups?



    I don't know.




    Greg when I have time, I'm going to make up a wax melting box that will allow me to evenly re-wax bullets.



    I've already figured I can only do 25 bullets at a time, using the Eley tray.....the old style.


    I must keep the bullets separated..........I don't believe I can dip 50 at a time......the bullets are too close together when in the Eley tray.





    ____________________________________



    Now Greg, here's the implication if it turns out one can re-wax bullets, and increase accuracy:



    In registered competition here in the USA, competitors are not allowed to alter the ammo they shoot.



    If this thing turns out to be real............



    All the sanctioning bodies here in the USA will have to start checking every competitors ammo before, in between, and after the matches....




    Your friend, BC

  4. #4

    The Crux of the matter

    Hi Bil

    "Three groups?.................is this a game changer, or, blind luck for three groups?"

    I think this is the crux of the matter and needs to be soughted out first.

    Then if there is a significant statistical gain to be made then the question is how to implement it.

    This could be done by finding out what the relube actually did to improve accuracy.

    Some possible areas are

    : it lubed the chamber during loading and reduced the case/barrel thrust due to more consistent lower case friction (static through to dynamic) and made more consistent bolt thrust albeit higher making the generating vibration signature simpler and more consistent.

    : it better lubed the lead and the first part of the bore for a more consistent bullet pull out force making the pressure time graph more consistent and thus making the generating vibration signature more consistent as well as the velocity.

    : it lubed the bore in a way as to have a wave of thick fluid in front of the bullet and so had a form of hydrodynamic drag that applied more so to faster bullets and slowed them down more to even the velocity.

    (just thinking)


    Then

    The Rules are the rules and must always be followed but there is always more than one way to skin a cat!!

    Regards
    Graham
    Last edited by Deveng; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:07 AM.

  5. #5
    As we know on old times we have ammo where was VERY much wax.

    Normally I have tried that I wax only bullets,not the case.

    But seen that if wax is near the same around case,it is not bad thing.

    Very "gun fool" idea came my mind sometimes...Big boys has told me that when case is expanding and hitting to chamber there is going on nasty " ring vibration" to barrel.

    When there is wax between case & chamber is it possible that it works like absorber or buffer?

    I know that we have case hardness changing problem in 22 LR ammo.

    If we have CIP or Saami standard chamber lets say 0.2265 or "Calfee style" 0.2250-0.2255 this thing is little different.

    Everybody can measure shooted cases in tight chamber and loose chamber and see with own eyes how cases diameter are changing and vary in loose chamber.

    If I understand right RFBR 22 LR ammo rules are something like this:

    *Factory made,over 1 million rounds/year,etc.

    Is this rule "barrier" to ultimate ammo developing?

    On CFBR side ammo developing is big part of the game.

    Do I know how ultimate ammo must make? Lot of things ,yes.We must make BIG changes to ammo and maybe no big company is intrested of that,because ultimate ammo cant be made with mass product idea.
    But wax is only little part of the "full package".

    BR, Timo

    Ps.My friend gave me 2 days ago old Lapua ammo.Maybe made year 1965 or so.Very oxidized.Cleaned oxidize off from few bullets and measured bullets diameter.They are 0.2260.
    Maybe most of chambers on 60s has been CIP or Saami loose ones? Very thick ones.

    Try to put few pictures.Bullets has no shoulder.

    BR, Timo

    Lapua1965 j.jpg

    Lapua 1965 2 j.jpg
    Last edited by Timo; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:22 AM.

  6. #6
    Try to put picture of ammo box.

    BR,

    Timo

    Lapua Championship (2).jpg

  7. #7

    Friend Deveng

    Quote Originally Posted by Deveng View Post
    Hi Bil

    "Three groups?.................is this a game changer, or, blind luck for three groups?"

    I think this is the crux of the matter and needs to be soughted out first.

    Then if there is a significant statistical gain to be made then the question is how to implement it.

    This could be done by finding out what the relube actually did to improve accuracy.

    Some possible areas are

    : it lubed the chamber during loading and reduced the case/barrel thrust due to more consistent lower case friction (static through to dynamic) and made more consistent bolt thrust albeit higher making the generating vibration signature simpler and more consistent.

    : it better lubed the lead and the first part of the bore for a more consistent bullet pull out force making the pressure time graph more consistent and thus making the generating vibration signature more consistent as well as the velocity.

    : it lubed the bore in a way as to have a wave of thick fluid in front of the bullet and so had a form of hydrodynamic drag that applied more so to faster bullets and slowed them down more to even the velocity.

    (just thinking)


    Then

    The Rules are the rules and must always be followed but there is always more than one way to skin a cat!!

    Regards
    Graham

    ___________________


    Friend Deveng:


    You've asked the 64 dollar question, basically:


    What does the wax actually do?



    Your friend, BC



    If this is repeatable, then accuracy can most certainly be altered by how the wax is applied.
    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 1 Week Ago at 06:40 AM.

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