Hammerli vs Calfee XP

404tbang

Member
A long time ago, fresh out of the Army and with a family to feed so I couldn't think about buying expensive guns, I was at a range and an "older guy" (probably about my age now so he was YOUNG!) showed up with a beautiful Hammerli Free Pistol. Well, I'd never seen such a critter and was fascinated by it. The guy was quite nice and a fount of knowledge and was kind enough to let me fire a couple of shots. Problem was it was a right hand grip and I'm left handed. Did the best I could but getting used to a trigger such as I'd never seen on a pistol I didn't know existed and for the wrong hand......I didn't do too good. But I never forgot it. Every now and then I research Free Pistols because I think they are elegant and interesting.

A few years ago I was talking to a guy at work who has two Calfee XP's and shoots IHMSA. I told him he didn't NEED two Calfee XP's and I'd swap my wife for one but he already has a wife and knows JUUUUuuuust how expensive wives are, so he said no. I asked him how accurate it was with the, I THINK, 15 inch barrel. He looked around and made sure it was just me able to hear him and said "you would think I'm lying if I told you". I told him I wouldn't, and go right ahead. He said "if I get an evening with pretty much no wind I can sometimes shoot half inch groups.......at 100 yards.

I'm pretty positive a Hammerli can't hang with that.

All this talk about a three lug MD PAS pistol for the masses has me more than a little curious. Awhile back Bill offered to let me shoot his along with his 40X pistol after I got over my back surgeries and I'm fired up about doing it. Just waiting for the virus stuff to calm down before I pester him about it.

For anyone with a Calfee XP in IHMSA configuration with a shorter than benchrest length barrel.......or for Bill if he sees this, about how much do they weigh? Is it something that would be a lot heavier than a Hammerli? I know, different types of pistols, but would a lighter barrel make it possible to shoot like a free pistol?

I'm curious about the versatility of a MD PAS three lug pistol. It would be cool to have a lighter and shorter barrel for shooting like a free pistol if possible. Not that I'm good enough to fully exploit it, I just like such things. And then it would be cool to switch to a rifle length barrel and use for RFBR.

After being off work a long time for the surgeries, no, I'm not in a position to buy something really expensive yet. But I've about talked myself out of buying a slick little custom barreled rifle in a style I like because I'm saving nickels and dimes for a three lug MD PAS pistol.

So, about how much would a three lug MD PAS pistol weigh with a smaller, shorter barrel and could it be used like a free pistol, as well as for shooting RFBR with a longer barrel?

Take care,

Greg
 
Greg,

Here are a couple of pictures I received from a customer whom used a standard Turbo V3 LBLP receiver to build a pistol for IHMSA Unlimited Class. The pistol has a 15" Bartlein barrel and a Bix N Andy two-stage competition trigger like we put on our 3P builds. He built the stock himself and used an AR style pistol grip for the grip. He is right handed and said that he uses a LBLP so he doesn't have to break his grip to load and cycle the receiver, he's got a Weaver 36X scope mounted on the pistol. The weight of the pistol with the scope is 6.8 pounds. I know this isn't exactly like the pistols you mentioned in your post but I thought you might enjoy seeing the pictures.

BTW, the Turbo V3 XP prototypes are just about finished.

Best Regards, Anthony DiOrio

LH V3 Pistol 1.jpg

LH V3 Pistol 2.jpg
 
Greg,

Here are a couple of pictures I received from a customer whom used a standard Turbo V3 LBLP receiver to build a pistol for IHMSA Unlimited Class. The pistol has a 15" Bartlein barrel and a Bix N Andy two-stage competition trigger like we put on our 3P builds. He built the stock himself and used an AR style pistol grip for the grip. He is right handed and said that he uses a LBLP so he doesn't have to break his grip to load and cycle the receiver, he's got a Weaver 36X scope mounted on the pistol. The weight of the pistol with the scope is 6.8 pounds. I know this isn't exactly like the pistols you mentioned in your post but I thought you might enjoy seeing the pictures.

BTW, the Turbo V3 XP prototypes are just about finished.

Best Regards, Anthony DiOrio

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Howdy Anthony,

I suspect somebody is having a big time with that! At 6.8 pounds I'd have a little trouble shooting that one handed. But now, back in the DAY.......yeah, the older I get the better I was! Thank you for posting the pics and info. I'd think that is a very good shooter.

Congrats on being this close to finished on your XP prototypes. There's this guy from Kentucky who lives in Southern Indiana that'll be real tickled about them! Bill has always said not to sit down and shoot one of these because they'll ruin you. I don't doubt him.

I've always liked the way Bob Finger described how much it made him smile when he shot an XP. He also said something to the effect that "you can put everything you need to shoot one in a Corvette and still have room for a blonde".

Thanks for the response, Anthony. I'm looking forward to learning more about your XP's.

Take care,

Greg
 
Friends 404tbang and AD

Friends 404tbang and AD


Friends 404tbang and AD:


Back in the 80's during my IHMSA Silhouette pistol building days I did a lot of 100 yard shooting.


Since the rams are shot at 100 yards...


I had several five shot groups that went in the 1/2" range......


And this was with 15 inch barrels...


Most of my XP's would stay within an inch at 100 yards......or awful close to it...



A story:


I was spotting for Mike Riley at the Indiana State IHMSA Championships, in Indianapolis....


Mike Riley was a bad-to-the-bone competitor......I was just the opposite....


State Championships are 80 targets......that's where IHMSA80X80 gets his name...


Anyway...............


Mike Riley was clean through the first 75 targets......


They called "commence fire" for his last five rams....



His first ram was struck low in the belly......


I didn't know exactly what to do......I was more nervous than he was......I didn't want to goof him up with my spotting.


See, I was pretty sure his first shot was low in the belly.......I say pretty sure...


But what if I was wrong........



So I put the marking thumb tack in the "center" of the ram and showed it to him....


His next shot was again low in the belly......I thought......


So I put the thumb tack in the center of the ram again....and showed it to him...


This continued for his first four rams......



Now this is the bad-to-the-bone part of Mike Riley:


As I showed him his last shot, I said, "Don't miss this one and you've got the Championship".



CYA friends, Mike Riley looked back at me and said this:


"Don't worry, I ain't about to miss this last ram, I guarantee you that".




When Mike's XP barked that last ram was absolutely dead center, center punched.


It wasn't low in the belly, like his first four rams......it was absolutely dead center......


Some competitors have something special.....some kind of steady determination when the going get the toughest, something that I never had.


Yes, he was Indiana State Champion.....80x80



Friend AD:


If these V-3 XP pistols come about, it will be a dream come true......


DSC00107 (2).jpg


Your friend, Bill pistol fool Calfee
 
For anyone with a Calfee XP in IHMSA configuration with a shorter than benchrest length barrel.......or for Bill if he sees this, about how much do they weigh? Is it something that would be a lot heavier than a Hammerli? I know, different types of pistols, but would a lighter barrel make it possible to shoot like a free pistol?

Friend Greg,

I have 2 Calfee XPs for IHMSA silhouette. The first one I had built for me by Bill. It has a 14.75 inch barrel on it, in a sporter configuration, not a heavy barrel. It weighs 4.5 pounds, a bit heavier than the Hammerli. However, it has the standard XP-100 mid-grip Zytel stock on it, so the balance is centered in the hand. The barrel doesn't drag the muzzle down if you were to shoot it like a regular pistol. It is actually very comfortable to shoot from a standing position. You wouldn't have any trouble with it.



The other XP has a heavier barrel and also a scope and weighs 5.5 pounds. Even with the extra weight, it is no trouble for me to shoot it standing, but I use a two-handed hold...I'm no good one-handed.
 
Friend Greg,

I have 2 Calfee XPs for IHMSA silhouette. The first one I had built for me by Bill. It has a 14.75 inch barrel on it, in a sporter configuration, not a heavy barrel. It weighs 4.5 pounds, a bit heavier than the Hammerli. However, it has the standard XP-100 mid-grip Zytel stock on it, so the balance is centered in the hand. The barrel doesn't drag the muzzle down if you were to shoot it like a regular pistol. It is actually very comfortable to shoot from a standing position. You wouldn't have any trouble with it.



The other XP has a heavier barrel and also a scope and weighs 5.5 pounds. Even with the extra weight, it is no trouble for me to shoot it standing, but I use a two-handed hold...I'm no good one-handed.


Howdy Dean,

Thanks for the info! I'm trying to figure out how versatile the new action can be. The Free Pistols have always fascinated me, but everything about them is different than what I'm used to. The ergonomics are impressive, and contribute to the accuracy.......when fired one handed. From some of the research I've been doing, the pure accuracy, benchrested, from them is not much better than a quality semi auto pistol. That surprised me. For me, really, it wouldn't make a difference I guess, I'm a lousy shot one handed. I just like the old Free Pistols. Bill has a thread about .790 barrels being able to be fit to the new action. That would cut some weight on a short barrel, but Free Pistols use light actions. I just think the versatility that can be done with the new action will be fun to play with......and yield stunning accuracy regardless of barrel length.

That blue Calfee XP pistol is beautiful. Bet it's got stories to tell about matches you've won........and matches you're yet to win......in due time.

Take care,

Greg
 
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Dean
You are one lucky man to have two of those incredible pistols.

I asked Anthony a question about what configurations would be available, his answer was,

" The V3 XP's will be available in any bolt and port configuration just like our standard receivers. "

Should give folks all the options.
I had an Exemplar for a while and got use to the LBLP, being a right hander.
Guess that would be my preference.

Glen H
 
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