Wilkinson Turbo FP Spring

Friend aslap

Can these springs still be had and, if so, how can I get a few?

Thanks

Tony

________________________________




Friend aslap:


I don't presume to speak for Tom Wilkinson, OK?


So....................



I don't think he sells springs as part of his involvement in the advancement of rimfire accuracy.


Tom spends a ton of money on MD-PAS spring R&D.....


Because he knows, as I do, that MD-PAS ignition has dominated RFBR for the past 23 years, and will continue to dominate it in the future...



If Tom Wilkinson does sell his springs to the general RFBR public, I apologize for this post.


Your friend, Bill gun fool Calfee
 
Thank

Bill,
Thanks! I thought they might be available like the Pepper springs.

Maybe you can answer this - I have a 10x action and of course I can’t get springs from them. Would springs from Anthony DiOrio work in the 10x?

Tony
 
Friend aslap

Bill,
Thanks! I thought they might be available like the Pepper springs.

Maybe you can answer this - I have a 10x action and of course I can’t get springs from them. Would springs from Anthony DiOrio work in the 10x?

Tony

__________________________________



Friend aslap:


I don't know the answer to your question.....you might contact Anthony...

___________________________


Friend aslap, there's nothing you can't do with the Pepper spring.


The Pepper spring will allow you to tear the head off the case, even with the DiOrio Crescent, if you wish, or, have such mild PAS ignition that you will have occasional failures to fire.



There is no degree of MD-PAS ignition that can not be accomplished with the Pepper.


The Pepper is the "universal" MD-PAS ignition spring.


Your friend, Bill gun fool Calfee
 
Thanks, again!

Bill,

I’ll work with the Pepper springs. I’m seeing what I think is an ignition issue and was/am looking for as many possible solutions as I can find.

Tony
 
Friend aslap

Bill,

I’ll work with the Pepper springs. I’m seeing what I think is an ignition issue and was/am looking for as many possible solutions as I can find.

Tony


____________________________



Friend aslap:


Be glad to help.......


Your friend, BC
 
Thanks again!

Bill,

I don’t want to take a lot of your time but I’m seeing 2 shots in one hole and the third out mainly low. I have had the original 10x spring in the rifle for three years and maybe 5 bricks through it in that time. I pulled the spring and it is a good 3/8” shorter than a spare 10x spring that I have. I have the Pepper in there now and it’s really driving the FP hard. The FP indent looks like somebody took a hammer and chisel to it.

So far, Wednesday is shaping up to be a day to shoot here in Pittsburgh. I figure I’ll see what happens and if it appears that the Pepper hasn’t done anything or made things worse, I’ll start trimming coils.

Tony
 
Friend aslap

Bill,

I don’t want to take a lot of your time but I’m seeing 2 shots in one hole and the third out mainly low. I have had the original 10x spring in the rifle for three years and maybe 5 bricks through it in that time. I pulled the spring and it is a good 3/8” shorter than a spare 10x spring that I have. I have the Pepper in there now and it’s really driving the FP hard. The FP indent looks like somebody took a hammer and chisel to it.

So far, Wednesday is shaping up to be a day to shoot here in Pittsburgh. I figure I’ll see what happens and if it appears that the Pepper hasn’t done anything or made things worse, I’ll start trimming coils.

Tony


____________________________


Friend aslap:



Over driving the pin is as bad as under driving it.


Before you do any actual shooting, with the Pepper, you need to see how far your pin is off its mechanical stop, when fired.


Before you start to check this, make sure the firing pin actually rests on its mechanical stop, when the breech bolt is de-cocked.


It should be.........but check anyway.


Then insert the bolt in the action and de-cock it.


Your extractors should hold the bolt to the rear, so the locking lugs are on their seats.


If not, physically hold the de-cocked bolt to the rear, someway.


Also, in the de-cocked position the bolt handle should have some up and down "play"....


This "play" indicates that the cocking teat in not resting in the bottom of the cocking notch, which you don't want it to do..




Then measure from the back of the tang to the back of the firing pin, and record this measurement.


Next insert a round and fire it...........do not open the breech bolt......


Measure from the back of the tang to the back of the firing pin, again......and record the measurement.


I like to see at least .010" difference between these two measurements.......


This difference is how far your pin is off its mechanical stop, when fired.



I used to use .005" as my mechanical stop minimum.......but got in trouble a couple times, so I changed to .010" as the minimum.




Now.........................



There's a ton of things, besides faulty ignition, that can cause a gun to shoot as you describe.


Bedding, for instance......................is a big one.


Good luck....


Your friend, BC
 
Here it is

Bill,

The rifle was bedded by a well known rimfire smith. I have 3 barrels for this action and all of them are doing the same thing. I have a Shilen ratchet on there now and it is headspaced at 0.046". This barrel is shimmed to the action so I could tighten that up if needed.

The FP is up against the stop when the bolt is decocked. After firing a round (Center X), the measurement shows 0.0145" so than seems good. But, man, that poor case looks abused! I'll try to get a pic of it in a post.

Thanks for chiming in on this! I certainly appreciate it.

Tony

PS - the other barrels are a Muller 4 MI and a Lilja tight bore.
 
Friend aslap

Bill,

The rifle was bedded by a well known rimfire smith. I have 3 barrels for this action and all of them are doing the same thing. I have a Shilen ratchet on there now and it is headspaced at 0.046". This barrel is shimmed to the action so I could tighten that up if needed.

The FP is up against the stop when the bolt is decocked. After firing a round (Center X), the measurement shows 0.0145" so than seems good. But, man, that poor case looks abused! I'll try to get a pic of it in a post.

Thanks for chiming in on this! I certainly appreciate it.

Tony

PS - the other barrels are a Muller 4 MI and a Lilja tight bore.


_______________________________



Friend aslap:


I just came in and turned on my machine and saw your post...


Friend aslap, your bedding may be perfect, or it may not.......


The only accurate way to check bedding, that I know of, is with a dial indicator mounted between the barrel and fore end of the stock...


If bedding were the issue, yes, all three barrels would act exactly the same.


Now.........................


We need some more info.....



How deep is the counter bore in your bolt nose?


When de-cocked, how far does the firing pin protrude through the counter bore in the bolt nose?


You will probably need to pull the extractors to get some of this info.


What's the firing pin tip shape, and condition?


____________________________



Friend aslap, if your FP is .014" off the mechanical stop, and .046" HS, unless you have some odd circumstance, which is why I asked the additional questions, you can't be over driving the pin, no matter what the footprint looks like.



Your friend, BC
 
Bill,

I get 0.041" for the nose recess. I have measured the FP protrusion with both an electronic caliper and a depth micrometer and I get 0.000 for a pin protrusion.

I don't have a jig to set up the dial caliper but let me ask if this would be a way to do it.

Get the rifle level in a vise and tighten it up. Have the dial indicator on a stand (which I have - pretty big and heavy) and get it onto the top of the barrel in the center and zero it.

I have the screws torqued to 25"/pounds. With the dial gauge on the barrel and zeroed, crack the front action screw. I should ideally see zero movement. Retighten the front screw back to the 25"/pounds; reset the dial gauge; and crack the rear action screw looking for movement.

Would this way work to check the bedding?

This may or may not be a pic of the fired case but I can agree with what you are saying about overdriving the FP based on the measurements.
 
Bill,

I get 0.041" for the nose recess. I have measured the FP protrusion with both an electronic caliper and a depth micrometer and I get 0.000 for a pin protrusion.

I don't have a jig to set up the dial caliper but let me ask if this would be a way to do it.

Get the rifle level in a vise and tighten it up. Have the dial indicator on a stand (which I have - pretty big and heavy) and get it onto the top of the barrel in the center and zero it.

I have the screws torqued to 25"/pounds. With the dial gauge on the barrel and zeroed, crack the front action screw. I should ideally see zero movement. Retighten the front screw back to the 25"/pounds; reset the dial gauge; and crack the rear action screw looking for movement.

Would this way work to check the bedding?

This may or may not be a pic of the fired case but I can agree with what you are saying about overdriving the FP based on the measurements.

Tony
 
Bill,

I get 0.041" for the nose recess. I have measured the FP protrusion with both an electronic caliper and a depth micrometer and I get 0.000 for a pin protrusion.

The FP itself is just the standard kind of shape. I did work the area where the pin hits the rim to try and get it off of that folded part of the rim.

I don't have a jig to set up the dial caliper but let me ask if this would be a way to do it.

Get the rifle level in a vise and tighten it up. Have the dial indicator on a stand (which I have - pretty big and heavy) and get it onto the top of the barrel in the center and zero it.

I have the screws torqued to 25"/pounds. With the dial gauge on the barrel and zeroed, crack the front action screw. I should ideally see zero movement. Retighten the front screw back to the 25"/pounds; reset the dial gauge; and crack the rear action screw looking for movement.

Would this way work to check the bedding?

Here is the pic of the fired case but I can agree with what you are saying about overdriving the FP based on the measurements.

Tony
 
Bill,

I get 0.041" for the nose recess. I have measured the FP protrusion with both an electronic caliper and a depth micrometer and I get 0.000 for a pin protrusion.

The FP itself is just the standard kind of shape. I did work the area where the pin hits the rim to try and get it off of that folded part of the rim.

I don't have a jig to set up the dial caliper but let me ask if this would be a way to do it.

Get the rifle level in a vise and tighten it up. Have the dial indicator on a stand (which I have - pretty big and heavy) and get it onto the top of the barrel in the center and zero it.

I have the screws torqued to 25"/pounds. With the dial gauge on the barrel and zeroed, crack the front action screw. I should ideally see zero movement. Retighten the front screw back to the 25"/pounds; reset the dial gauge; and crack the rear action screw looking for movement.

Would this way work to check the bedding?

Here is the pic of the fired case but I can agree with what you are saying about overdriving the FP based on the measurements.

Tony
 
Sorry

I don't know what all of the posts appeared. I was previewing it a couple of times and when I hit submit., all of the previews posted.

Tony
 
Friend aslap

Bill,

I get 0.041" for the nose recess. I have measured the FP protrusion with both an electronic caliper and a depth micrometer and I get 0.000 for a pin protrusion.


The FP itself is just the standard kind of shape. I did work the area where the pin hits the rim to try and get it off of that folded part of the rim.

I don't have a jig to set up the dial caliper but let me ask if this would be a way to do it.

Get the rifle level in a vise and tighten it up. Have the dial indicator on a stand (which I have - pretty big and heavy) and get it onto the top of the barrel in the center and zero it.

I have the screws torqued to 25"/pounds. With the dial gauge on the barrel and zeroed, crack the front action screw. I should ideally see zero movement. Retighten the front screw back to the 25"/pounds; reset the dial gauge; and crack the rear action screw looking for movement.

Would this way work to check the bedding?

Here is the pic of the fired case but I can agree with what you are saying about overdriving the FP based on the measurements.

Tony


___________________________


Friend aslap:



Your comment in bold orange.



You say the counter bore in the bolt nose is .041" deep. I got that.


Are you saying, with the breech bolt de-cocked, that the tip of the firing pin is also .041", or flush with the end of the bolt nose?



________________________________



Checking bedding:


You might make things rigid enough to check it.....accurately.


But, with the rifle clamped in the vise, horizontally, you only loosen the front bedding screw.


If you loosen the tang screw, the barrel will have to droop.......some.....


Your friend, BC
 
Yes

Bill,

Yes. The firing pin tip is flush with the outside of the bolt nose counterbore.

I also took a straight edge and ran Ir across the bolt face and didn’t feel it catch on anything.

Tony
 
Friend aslap

Bill,

Yes. The firing pin tip is flush with the outside of the bolt nose counterbore.

I also took a straight edge and ran Ir across the bolt face and didn’t feel it catch on anything.

Tony


__________________________


Friend aslap:



Doing the math:


FP protrusion........041" with the pin standing .014" off the mechanical stop, leaves .027" actual protrusion when fired.



.046" HS less .027" leaves .019" between the tip of the firing pin and the breech face of the barrel.


Depending on the radius at the mouth of your chamber, the head of a Lapua case will be standing .042", or so, away from the breech face of the barrel...


.042" minus .019" leaves .023" of footprint penetration.


Now....................................................


You have two moves you could make at this point.


1........you need to make absolutely sure you're not over driving.....with the Pepper.


And the proper way to do this, is to reduce the firing pin travel .005" and measure how far you're off the mechanical stop.


If you get the same .014", then you are over driving with the Pepper.


Do not clip off a coil to run this test......it won't tell you anything.....


Or............................................



2....Go shoot the rifle, as is, and see what happens.


Your friend, BC
 
Well....

Bill,

Here is what I did for the bedding check.

The forearm of the rifle is clamped in the vise and I had the butt stock resting on some pieces of wood to make it all level. The dial indicator is positioned at the top of the barrel with the tip of the indicator right at the end of the forearm. When I break the front action screw loose, I get an upward deflection of 0.001". I know that zero is the goal but what do you think about this movement. I can repeat this so I think I have the set up robust enough at least for this test.

Tony
 
Friend aslap

Bill,

Here is what I did for the bedding check.

The forearm of the rifle is clamped in the vise and I had the butt stock resting on some pieces of wood to make it all level. The dial indicator is positioned at the top of the barrel with the tip of the indicator right at the end of the forearm. When I break the front action screw loose, I get an upward deflection of 0.001". I know that zero is the goal but what do you think about this movement. I can repeat this so I think I have the set up robust enough at least for this test.

Tony


_______________________________________


Friend aslap:


It's .001" too much.



Friend aslap, read my last post to you about the firing pin protrusion.


At this point you have two options....do either.



Finally..............


No matter which option you do, there's two blueprinting changes I would make to your breech bolt, if it were mine.


Do one of the two options, or both, then we'll discuss the blueprinting changes I would make....OK.


Your friend, BC
 
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