Friend gun fool Timo

[404tbang]

Back to this "ammo from hell".Biggest problem is primer mass effort.About 33 %+- 22 LR:s Vo speed comes from primer and about 67 %+- comes from powder.
Primer explodes and powder burns.
Explode material is VERY difficult to keep in control.
We can get LITTLE smaller Vo spreads with better wax,constant bullet lenght & thickeness & hardness,constant bullet "seating force" (bullet outdraw force) to case,constant case hardness etc. Heavy on word LITTLE.

But when we have primer mass force what ONLY gives us 5 meter/s (16 feet/s or so) Vo speed spread you dont have trick to make it better whatever you make after that.

It is possible to test this primer mass speed spread shooting from short 4" barrel to chrono without powder. I trust mostly my way when shooting with so small priming mass force that bullet is NOT coming outside of long 28" barrel and I measure with wood rod how long bullet goes to barrel without powder and compare this "deep variation".

I am jealous to our CFBR friends.There primer force compared to powder force is so small that they dont need to care of it.
(Better to make future 22 LR ammo with same way???)

And I am little confused when read this:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?238490-Cowboy-Loads-information-from-Vihtavuori

In 22 LR ammos powder location is not going same way when you read this 2).Coming from BIG % of primer force compared to pistol or rifle ammo or what?

2) Free space in the case
When using charges which leave large amount of free space in the case, the shooting characteristics may vary largely depend- ing on where the powder is located in the case. If the powder lies totally in the bottom of the case (i.e. in the end where primer is), the muzzle velocity and especially the maximum pressure become much higher. The maximum pressure may even be doubled when same powder charge is moved from the bullet end to the primer end of the case. This can simply be demonstrated by shaking the revolver barrel upwards or barrel downwards just before turning it smoothly in horizontal position, aiming and shooting. Also the recoil may transfer the powder in either end of the case. This is sometimes seen as a velocity change between the first shot and the following shots.

The shot to shot deviations in velocity and pressure are normally increased when using load which leaves the cases half empty. For this reason such loads are not recommended for target loads. The data below is tested in a way that the powder is as much as possible in the primer side before firing, and therefore, the pressures and the velocities represent the maximum values which were obtained using our test equipment and cartridge components indicated in the table.

Lonely 22 LR ammo loader,

Timo

Timo,

That was interesting and educational to read, thank you.


As I understand it, and I may be wrong, the spinning of primer in the case may have given better accuracy but was a more dangerous process, and that is why the Eley Prime system is used by pretty much everyone. But I could be wrong. I've read that the Eley Prime system is supposed to be consistent, but you have proven there is variation.

I don't have any silly ideas on what to do about primer. I do have silly ideas about powder location.

What happens if the powder is kept in the same location by using something to fill the space between the bullet and the powder? Something like a shotgun wad? Enough plastic long enough to go from the base of the bullet to the area where the powder lies, getting rid of the empty space? The diameter would need to be correct so that powder could not get in front of the plastic and not be burned.

Of course, melted plastic in the grooves would not be desired, so what if another material were used? Paper of some sort? Or something like cigarette filter material? Any material that could be consistent in length to take up the empty space and hold the powder at the bottom of the case?

Powder amounts would have to be experimented with in order to get a desired velocity, I would think. And of course, such a material would need to exit the barrel every time, and not leave residue in the bore.

No sleep and not enough coffee. That will probably look like a bad idea to me later in the day. Trouble is, I've wondered about it for years.

Take care,

Greg