My tuning process
- Thread starter PedroS
- Start date
Before anything goes let's assume the following:
1. This is my tuning process
2. It applies to a new or a seasoned rifle
3. Any rifle can be tuned, but not all can achieve my goal standards. That said, don't expect from gear what it can't deliver...
4. The rifle has to have the right components. This is tricky and I'm not going deep here. But it has to have a good action, with right ignition, a good and well fitted barrel, a sound trigger, a good scope and a good tuner.
5. This is a step by step process. Don't rush. Plan and anticipate.
6. It's too easy to fall on traps...
And last, but not least, to tune correctly a rifle, you should have a sound shooting technique (maybe a new thread on this one?)...
That said, take part on this thread, giving your opinion and sharing experiences. It would be much better than just my monologue...
1. This is my tuning process
2. It applies to a new or a seasoned rifle
3. Any rifle can be tuned, but not all can achieve my goal standards. That said, don't expect from gear what it can't deliver...
4. The rifle has to have the right components. This is tricky and I'm not going deep here. But it has to have a good action, with right ignition, a good and well fitted barrel, a sound trigger, a good scope and a good tuner.
5. This is a step by step process. Don't rush. Plan and anticipate.
6. It's too easy to fall on traps...
And last, but not least, to tune correctly a rifle, you should have a sound shooting technique (maybe a new thread on this one?)...
That said, take part on this thread, giving your opinion and sharing experiences. It would be much better than just my monologue...
Andy, this is a tuning thread.
I understand that you want to know all about components, but, around here, there are much more competent people to talk about them, than me.
By good components, I assume the ones used the most by top BR shooters. In my case, now I'm almost a Turbo action user, but having great success too with 2500X and Grunigs. Barrels I have mainly Shilen and Muller, and a fantastic Broughton sporter. Triggers I have B&A and FFares, lately using only the Flavios. Tuners a couple, but now only Ricardos MKII.
As I said before, I choose what I want to use, and then let my gunsmith to do the magic of assembling the "puzzle". To each his own task. Mine is shooting.
Traps... I'm referring to tuning traps. Not any others.
Ok, tuning traps...
There are a couple of them that we should be well aware of:
1. Everything works the 1st time out
This is the most common one, and so overrated...
We change a thing, went to the range, made a great score or group, et voila! We discovered the wheel, bingo, eureka... just to learn later on that the rifle is the same, or worst, than before.
I heard so many times: "I just clicked here or changed that, and my rifle came alive!".
Be very prudent on 1st results.
Always try the same thing couple of days later, repeat several times. That's the only way to confirm or infirm the change.
Don't take anything for granted. Repeat it, again, and again.
2. Tuning without a notebook
Another common trap. Should I say more?
We all have been there.
So, please make yourself a favour and take notes. Ahhh... I just want to try a different setting... nahhh, didn't work. Let's return to original... ups... it was... where?... Dang, missed both!
Never, change anything without taking previous notes, or photos.
Of course you are thinking of the most obvious thing, the tuner. But you just wanted to change the torque settings, and forget the previous ones...
A competition rifle is a complex piece of machinery, respect it, take notes.
3. Groups and scores
We shoot for score not for groups, even if a lot of tuning is done around group sizes.
"Look, I did this 8mm 10 shot group. I'm done. My rifle and ammo combination is just magic." Ahhh.... are you sure? Did you tried it how many times? In different days and conditions? How that group size translates into scores?
Those are the questions that you need to answer before you are done!
4. I can tune a rifle to a specific ammo
Yes, you can, but then the rifle is "adjusted" to that ammo and not tuned. Think about that.
5. Everyday is different so I need to tune the rifle to suit the conditions
Again, yes you can, but what you are doing is "adjusting" the rifle, not tuning it.
Every time you adjust a rifle you are not shooting it at its best performance, so a compromise is taken.
Take home message:
A tuned rifle stays tuned until a major component is changed.
From my experience, major components are: the action, the barrel and the tuner.
Everything else can (should) be changed keeping the rifle in tune. I can change stocks, scopes and triggers (of course, they need to be adjusted to allow a perfect ignition), in all my rifles, without disturbing their tuning characteristics.
I know some of you are already wrinkling the nose, but once you realize that your performance will go up.
I understand that you want to know all about components, but, around here, there are much more competent people to talk about them, than me.
By good components, I assume the ones used the most by top BR shooters. In my case, now I'm almost a Turbo action user, but having great success too with 2500X and Grunigs. Barrels I have mainly Shilen and Muller, and a fantastic Broughton sporter. Triggers I have B&A and FFares, lately using only the Flavios. Tuners a couple, but now only Ricardos MKII.
As I said before, I choose what I want to use, and then let my gunsmith to do the magic of assembling the "puzzle". To each his own task. Mine is shooting.
Traps... I'm referring to tuning traps. Not any others.
Ok, tuning traps...
There are a couple of them that we should be well aware of:
1. Everything works the 1st time out
This is the most common one, and so overrated...
We change a thing, went to the range, made a great score or group, et voila! We discovered the wheel, bingo, eureka... just to learn later on that the rifle is the same, or worst, than before.
I heard so many times: "I just clicked here or changed that, and my rifle came alive!".
Be very prudent on 1st results.
Always try the same thing couple of days later, repeat several times. That's the only way to confirm or infirm the change.
Don't take anything for granted. Repeat it, again, and again.
2. Tuning without a notebook
Another common trap. Should I say more?
We all have been there.
So, please make yourself a favour and take notes. Ahhh... I just want to try a different setting... nahhh, didn't work. Let's return to original... ups... it was... where?... Dang, missed both!
Never, change anything without taking previous notes, or photos.
Of course you are thinking of the most obvious thing, the tuner. But you just wanted to change the torque settings, and forget the previous ones...
A competition rifle is a complex piece of machinery, respect it, take notes.
3. Groups and scores
We shoot for score not for groups, even if a lot of tuning is done around group sizes.
"Look, I did this 8mm 10 shot group. I'm done. My rifle and ammo combination is just magic." Ahhh.... are you sure? Did you tried it how many times? In different days and conditions? How that group size translates into scores?
Those are the questions that you need to answer before you are done!
4. I can tune a rifle to a specific ammo
Yes, you can, but then the rifle is "adjusted" to that ammo and not tuned. Think about that.
5. Everyday is different so I need to tune the rifle to suit the conditions
Again, yes you can, but what you are doing is "adjusting" the rifle, not tuning it.
Every time you adjust a rifle you are not shooting it at its best performance, so a compromise is taken.
Take home message:
A tuned rifle stays tuned until a major component is changed.
From my experience, major components are: the action, the barrel and the tuner.
Everything else can (should) be changed keeping the rifle in tune. I can change stocks, scopes and triggers (of course, they need to be adjusted to allow a perfect ignition), in all my rifles, without disturbing their tuning characteristics.
I know some of you are already wrinkling the nose, but once you realize that your performance will go up.
Todd Earhart
Well-known member
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- Nov 3, 2016
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Can you give your definition of a tuned rifle. Does your definition of a tuned rifle have to do with bullet exit timing or other.
Todd
Todd
I don't know what my bullets do when they exit the barrel. I've never seen or measured it.
What I can measure is where the bullets hit the target. And how consistent they are depending of different conditions. That I can measure too.
My shooting approach is very pragmatic. Either it works, or not. So, so, it's not enough...
For me, a tuned rifle is a rifle that produces consistently the smallest 30 shots groups possible for that rifle. If a rifle does 14mm 30 shots groups consistently, and can't go smaller whatever I'll do, it's tuned. If another rifle does the same but with 12mm groups, it's tuned too, and it's not better tuned than the first one, just more precise.
I consider a tuned rifle, when that rifle does what I want, irrespectively of conditions. Take as an exemple, my last worlds rifle. We had from faint wind to almost hurricane bursts. If I did correctly the rifle will produce a ten or an X. Every time. And didn't matter if I wait 10s or 4min between shots. That's a tuned rifle!
Edited: typo
Last edited:
Pedro,
First off, congratulations on the latest victories! Nicely done!
The tuned rifle, you still are searching for the right lots of ammo, correct? Let’s say you have a tuned rifle that with ammo X and shot 30 round groups that measured Y and produced winning scores and everything else you look for. I’m assuming that the ammo search is first to find ammo that does Y grouping and then refine from there. Since you know the rifle can do a certain thing, searching for ammo then is just that - searching for ammo and ammo alone. I’d also guess you’d keep some sort of ammo around as a reference for the tunnel testing? Seems like you could find yourself in the classic chicken or the egg argument without something to refer to.
Thanks for the insights. They are valuable.
Tony
First off, congratulations on the latest victories! Nicely done!
The tuned rifle, you still are searching for the right lots of ammo, correct? Let’s say you have a tuned rifle that with ammo X and shot 30 round groups that measured Y and produced winning scores and everything else you look for. I’m assuming that the ammo search is first to find ammo that does Y grouping and then refine from there. Since you know the rifle can do a certain thing, searching for ammo then is just that - searching for ammo and ammo alone. I’d also guess you’d keep some sort of ammo around as a reference for the tunnel testing? Seems like you could find yourself in the classic chicken or the egg argument without something to refer to.
Thanks for the insights. They are valuable.
Tony
Todd Earhart
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2016
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- 273
- Reaction score
- 289
Thanks. I was curious your method to determine your tuned standard. Can you explain how you determine your initial tuner setting to start testing? I see this question asked a lot. The common answer is Hopewell method.
Todd
1st step
Preparing the rifle
Before any tuning procedure the rifle has to be prepared.
The attention has to be drawn to the following elements:
1. The stock
Even if a correctly tuned rifle can change the stocks, a well made, preferably with parallel running surfaces, well bedded stock is a most.
I tend to prefer clean stock lines and low profile designs.
In a well bedded stock, torque your action to 5Nm. We don't use different torque settings to tune, because if you need it, the bedding has to be redone.
2. Barrelled action
Clean it. Did I said to clean it? Yes, clean it. I do hate dirty rifles... remember it's a precision tool.
Your gunsmith should have provided you a correctly fitted barrel and a tuned trigger. Don't mess you those.
The tuner, or whatever the name you call it, should also be clean (clean it always you clean your barrel). Why should you clean the tuner? Well dirt is dirt, and you know I hate it, but dirt has weight, and the more dirty it became the more heavier it will turn... you got the message.
Tuner barrel fitting is critical.
I favour sleeves (I do them from 7075 aluminum), because I can do them, but can't change a wrongly opened tuner... I do my sleeves until I have a gentle push fit on the barrel. I can turn upside down the rifle and the tuner won't fall down. With such a fitting a slight screw torque is needed, something around 1~2Nm, nothing more.
If you happen to have a slacking tuner, ask someone to open it a bit more and make a sleeve.
As my experience grows, I develop a feeling where a tuner should be set initially. But doesn't matter, put it at the middle setting range.
A word of caution here...
For a new rifle put it at the middle. There are no two similar rifles. Each one has its particular setting.
When someone ask me to check a tuned setting, I respect the owner setting, shoot some groups and progress from the results.
So, if you have already a tuned one don't touch it! Take a note a photo and then proceed. Often you will return to that setting, so better to know where it was...
Check the scope ring bases. It's too easy to have them not aligned. Loosen the screws, put a straight rule against their side and torque gently each screw, to not loose the alignment, until 3Nm.
Install the scope. The horizontal reticle line should be parallel to the flat front bottom stock part. Base ring screw to 3Nm, scopes ones to 2Nm.
3. On bench gear
Prepare your front and rear rest as for a match.
Don't overload your bench with unnecessary stuff.
A note-block has to be there, thought.
4. Ammo
Only tune with top brand ammo.
For this 1st step doesn't matter if you have or not a selected lot. But bring 3 lots.
Preparing the rifle
Before any tuning procedure the rifle has to be prepared.
The attention has to be drawn to the following elements:
1. The stock
Even if a correctly tuned rifle can change the stocks, a well made, preferably with parallel running surfaces, well bedded stock is a most.
I tend to prefer clean stock lines and low profile designs.
In a well bedded stock, torque your action to 5Nm. We don't use different torque settings to tune, because if you need it, the bedding has to be redone.
2. Barrelled action
Clean it. Did I said to clean it? Yes, clean it. I do hate dirty rifles... remember it's a precision tool.
Your gunsmith should have provided you a correctly fitted barrel and a tuned trigger. Don't mess you those.
The tuner, or whatever the name you call it, should also be clean (clean it always you clean your barrel). Why should you clean the tuner? Well dirt is dirt, and you know I hate it, but dirt has weight, and the more dirty it became the more heavier it will turn... you got the message.
Tuner barrel fitting is critical.
I favour sleeves (I do them from 7075 aluminum), because I can do them, but can't change a wrongly opened tuner... I do my sleeves until I have a gentle push fit on the barrel. I can turn upside down the rifle and the tuner won't fall down. With such a fitting a slight screw torque is needed, something around 1~2Nm, nothing more.
If you happen to have a slacking tuner, ask someone to open it a bit more and make a sleeve.
As my experience grows, I develop a feeling where a tuner should be set initially. But doesn't matter, put it at the middle setting range.
A word of caution here...
For a new rifle put it at the middle. There are no two similar rifles. Each one has its particular setting.
When someone ask me to check a tuned setting, I respect the owner setting, shoot some groups and progress from the results.
So, if you have already a tuned one don't touch it! Take a note a photo and then proceed. Often you will return to that setting, so better to know where it was...
Check the scope ring bases. It's too easy to have them not aligned. Loosen the screws, put a straight rule against their side and torque gently each screw, to not loose the alignment, until 3Nm.
Install the scope. The horizontal reticle line should be parallel to the flat front bottom stock part. Base ring screw to 3Nm, scopes ones to 2Nm.
3. On bench gear
Prepare your front and rear rest as for a match.
Don't overload your bench with unnecessary stuff.
A note-block has to be there, thought.
4. Ammo
Only tune with top brand ammo.
For this 1st step doesn't matter if you have or not a selected lot. But bring 3 lots.
1st step done.
From now on, let's choose calm days, or an indoor venue if available. Just remember an indoor site it isn't free from air movement... so expect some "strange" impacts.
I do all my tuning outdoors, because we don't have around here an indoor range, but also because I like to test and tune with some wind. Wind tuning is harder, of course, and could be misleading, so better to do it in calm days.
I think you'll be disappointed as my tuning process is simple and far from rocket science... however is gives a rock solid base for progressing.
2nd step
You just need your rifle and benchrest gear, some cards (plenty) and methodology as you progress.
Ammo, don't forget ammo. Two lots are ok, better three. Tune with your shooting brand. That said, and as you know, I shoot Lapua.
Key points to consider:
1. Use the same brand to warm up the rifle
2. You are going to shoot fast a large number of rounds, so keep track and clean around 50~75 shots.
3. The tuning process is not the place to spare on ammo, but neither a moment to shoot without sense
4. Cards will be shot on horizontal way (1 row each lot)
Shooting procedure:
1. Is your barrel clean? If yes warm it with 5~7 shots
2. Lot A 3 shot group on target 1
3. Lot B 3 shot group on target 6
4. Lot C 3 shot group on target 11
5. Lot C 3 shot group on target 12
6. Lot B 3 shot group on target 7
7. Lot A 3 shot group on target 2
Look at the group tendency:
1. Vertical spread - tuner 1 turn out
2. Horizontal spread - tuner 1 turn in
Repeat the shooting procedure, but now:
1. Lot A 3 shot group on target 3
2. Lot B 3 shot group on target 8
3. Lot C 3 shot group on target 13
4. Lot C 3 shot group on target 14
5. Lot B 3 shot group on target 9
6. Lot A 3 shot group on target 4 (note: 36 counting shots + 5~7 warming up... cleaning time approaching)
Look at the group tendency:
1. Vertical spread - tuner 1 turn out
2. Horizontal spread - tuner 1 turn in
Change cards accordingly.
With this process it's easy to follow the trend and tuning done. Repeat this until you find the best possible groups.
Now, you have enough shots to identify the best lot at the table. Continue the process with just that lot until you achieve the smaller possible group.
What you are doing is not choosing lots, but rather find the first best approach to the tuner set point.
When done, relax, enjoy shooting for score one or two cards. Take note of that tuner mark.
Borrow or buy one or two boxes from fellow shooters (same brand as previous or the intended to be used) and repeat the above process a couple of times.
Again, find the best lot available and refine the set point. If you are lucky it could be the same (buy some lottery tickets...). Majority of us mortals it won't but should be close.
I told you this is a lenty process, but it's a sure one.
Take your time, don't rush, it will pay dividends later on.
You are now ready for the 3 step...
From now on, let's choose calm days, or an indoor venue if available. Just remember an indoor site it isn't free from air movement... so expect some "strange" impacts.
I do all my tuning outdoors, because we don't have around here an indoor range, but also because I like to test and tune with some wind. Wind tuning is harder, of course, and could be misleading, so better to do it in calm days.
I think you'll be disappointed as my tuning process is simple and far from rocket science... however is gives a rock solid base for progressing.
2nd step
You just need your rifle and benchrest gear, some cards (plenty) and methodology as you progress.
Ammo, don't forget ammo. Two lots are ok, better three. Tune with your shooting brand. That said, and as you know, I shoot Lapua.
Key points to consider:
1. Use the same brand to warm up the rifle
2. You are going to shoot fast a large number of rounds, so keep track and clean around 50~75 shots.
3. The tuning process is not the place to spare on ammo, but neither a moment to shoot without sense
4. Cards will be shot on horizontal way (1 row each lot)
Shooting procedure:
1. Is your barrel clean? If yes warm it with 5~7 shots
2. Lot A 3 shot group on target 1
3. Lot B 3 shot group on target 6
4. Lot C 3 shot group on target 11
5. Lot C 3 shot group on target 12
6. Lot B 3 shot group on target 7
7. Lot A 3 shot group on target 2
Look at the group tendency:
1. Vertical spread - tuner 1 turn out
2. Horizontal spread - tuner 1 turn in
Repeat the shooting procedure, but now:
1. Lot A 3 shot group on target 3
2. Lot B 3 shot group on target 8
3. Lot C 3 shot group on target 13
4. Lot C 3 shot group on target 14
5. Lot B 3 shot group on target 9
6. Lot A 3 shot group on target 4 (note: 36 counting shots + 5~7 warming up... cleaning time approaching)
Look at the group tendency:
1. Vertical spread - tuner 1 turn out
2. Horizontal spread - tuner 1 turn in
Change cards accordingly.
With this process it's easy to follow the trend and tuning done. Repeat this until you find the best possible groups.
Now, you have enough shots to identify the best lot at the table. Continue the process with just that lot until you achieve the smaller possible group.
What you are doing is not choosing lots, but rather find the first best approach to the tuner set point.
When done, relax, enjoy shooting for score one or two cards. Take note of that tuner mark.
Borrow or buy one or two boxes from fellow shooters (same brand as previous or the intended to be used) and repeat the above process a couple of times.
Again, find the best lot available and refine the set point. If you are lucky it could be the same (buy some lottery tickets...). Majority of us mortals it won't but should be close.
I told you this is a lenty process, but it's a sure one.
Take your time, don't rush, it will pay dividends later on.
You are now ready for the 3 step...
The 3rd step is also an intermediate step and should be taken as such...
By now, your rifle is at your best compromise with lots at hand. You have set your tuner to the smallest groups possible (achievable).
Is your rifle tuned? Not yet.
This 3rd step is dedicated to shoot lines. Card lines...
But before, zero your scope. This means you should hit where you are aiming (consider a 12mm group).
Setup your card and with your best lot, until now, shoot one bullet on each target of the 1st row. Don't forget to clean your barrel and warm it like explained before doing the 1st line.
Draw a line across all Xs. Then look at your impacts.
You are seeking for vertical strings, because horizontal ones touching the line don't matter.
Are they touching the line? If not don't worry. Now it's time to fine tuning the tuner. And again with the very same process...
1. Ups and downs - 2 clicks out
2. Horizontal ones - 2 clicks in (only if they are far from the X. How far, depends on your ability to shoot, but let's say more than 6mm each side click in.
Shoot now the second row, draw the line, adjust the tuner if needed.
When all bullets touch the line you are done for now.
Put a new card, clean your barrel, warm it, and shoot a full card for score.
Draw the 5 lines. Look at the bullets holes. If more than 20 touching the line you're done. If more than 15 but less than 20. click one out, and if less than 15, redo the step.
Fantastic, you are still alive after the 3rd step!
Again don't rush, proceed methodically. Have you notice I didn't care about group sizes, or scores? It's not yet the time for it. Think small possible group and bullets touching the lines, That's it for now.
Take note, and a photo of the tuner settings... you know.
And you are ready for the 4th step!
By now, your rifle is at your best compromise with lots at hand. You have set your tuner to the smallest groups possible (achievable).
Is your rifle tuned? Not yet.
This 3rd step is dedicated to shoot lines. Card lines...
But before, zero your scope. This means you should hit where you are aiming (consider a 12mm group).
Setup your card and with your best lot, until now, shoot one bullet on each target of the 1st row. Don't forget to clean your barrel and warm it like explained before doing the 1st line.
Draw a line across all Xs. Then look at your impacts.
You are seeking for vertical strings, because horizontal ones touching the line don't matter.
Are they touching the line? If not don't worry. Now it's time to fine tuning the tuner. And again with the very same process...
1. Ups and downs - 2 clicks out
2. Horizontal ones - 2 clicks in (only if they are far from the X. How far, depends on your ability to shoot, but let's say more than 6mm each side click in.
Shoot now the second row, draw the line, adjust the tuner if needed.
When all bullets touch the line you are done for now.
Put a new card, clean your barrel, warm it, and shoot a full card for score.
Draw the 5 lines. Look at the bullets holes. If more than 20 touching the line you're done. If more than 15 but less than 20. click one out, and if less than 15, redo the step.
Fantastic, you are still alive after the 3rd step!
Again don't rush, proceed methodically. Have you notice I didn't care about group sizes, or scores? It's not yet the time for it. Think small possible group and bullets touching the lines, That's it for now.
Take note, and a photo of the tuner settings... you know.
And you are ready for the 4th step!
4th step...
This is when you choose the best lot available.
Don't touch the tuner, it's set from previous steps.
You can do it either at a test centre, or at your shooting range.
Try to have at hand at least 9 different lots.
Either way you are looking for the best groups a lot can produce.
Things to consider when choosing lots:
1. Your rifle is set (don't touch the tuner)
2. Look for lots that produce 10 shots groups < 13mm
3. 30 shots aggregate < 14mm
4. Slowest possible speed
5. Look for smaller vertical strings vs horizontal
On a test centre the best way to do it is just with the barrelled action, even without the scope, and with an aluminium block where the action is torqued to 5Nm. Some centres offer a free recoil in their bench vice. You have to ask for it, but use it if available.
You are seeking for consistency ammo and the best possible groups.
However if no lot was found producing 30 shot aggregate group < 14mm, don't buy any. Wait a couple of weeks for new lots coming and test again.
On a shooting range use your rifle as for a match. You have to be very methodical and having a good shooting technique, or results are not consistent. You are looking for the same as on the test centre. Best group possible (use 10 shot groups in 3 consecutive targets. Then superimpose them and look for the aggregate group. Don't adjust the scope in between, or the results aren't valid.
It's important to take your time to find a good lot. Next tuning step will depend on this.
Please note: It doesn't matter if a lot produces 2 great groups and one bigger than 13mm... discard it. You are looking for 3 consecutive groups smaller than 13mm. Of course, if you find a better lot, pick it!
Now you are ready for the 5th and last step
This is when you choose the best lot available.
Don't touch the tuner, it's set from previous steps.
You can do it either at a test centre, or at your shooting range.
Try to have at hand at least 9 different lots.
Either way you are looking for the best groups a lot can produce.
Things to consider when choosing lots:
1. Your rifle is set (don't touch the tuner)
2. Look for lots that produce 10 shots groups < 13mm
3. 30 shots aggregate < 14mm
4. Slowest possible speed
5. Look for smaller vertical strings vs horizontal
On a test centre the best way to do it is just with the barrelled action, even without the scope, and with an aluminium block where the action is torqued to 5Nm. Some centres offer a free recoil in their bench vice. You have to ask for it, but use it if available.
You are seeking for consistency ammo and the best possible groups.
However if no lot was found producing 30 shot aggregate group < 14mm, don't buy any. Wait a couple of weeks for new lots coming and test again.
On a shooting range use your rifle as for a match. You have to be very methodical and having a good shooting technique, or results are not consistent. You are looking for the same as on the test centre. Best group possible (use 10 shot groups in 3 consecutive targets. Then superimpose them and look for the aggregate group. Don't adjust the scope in between, or the results aren't valid.
It's important to take your time to find a good lot. Next tuning step will depend on this.
Please note: It doesn't matter if a lot produces 2 great groups and one bigger than 13mm... discard it. You are looking for 3 consecutive groups smaller than 13mm. Of course, if you find a better lot, pick it!
Now you are ready for the 5th and last step
MikeMcAllister
Member
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"Things to consider when choosing lots:4th step...
This is when you choose the best lot available.
Don't touch the tuner, it's set from previous steps.
You can do it either at a test centre, or at your shooting range.
Try to have at hand at least 9 different lots.
Either way you are looking for the best groups a lot can produce.
Things to consider when choosing lots:
1. Your rifle is set (don't touch the tuner)
2. Look for lots that produce 10 shots groups < 13mm
3. 30 shots aggregate < 14mm
4. Slowest possible speed
5. Look for smaller vertical strings vs horizontal
On a test centre the best way to do it is just with the barrelled action, even without the scope, and with an aluminium block where the action is torqued to 5Nm. Some centres offer a free recoil in their bench vice. You have to ask for it, but use it if available.
You are seeking for consistency ammo and the best possible groups.
However if no lot was found producing 30 shot aggregate group < 14mm, don't buy any. Wait a couple of weeks for new lots coming and test again.
On a shooting range use your rifle as for a match. You have to be very methodical and having a good shooting technique, or results are not consistent. You are looking for the same as on the test centre. Best group possible (use 10 shot groups in 3 consecutive targets. Then superimpose them and look for the aggregate group. Don't adjust the scope in between, or the results aren't valid.
It's important to take your time to find a good lot. Next tuning step will depend on this.
Please note: It doesn't matter if a lot produces 2 great groups and one bigger than 13mm... discard it. You are looking for 3 consecutive groups smaller than 13mm. Of course, if you find a better lot, pick it!
Now you are ready for the 5th and last step
1. Your rifle is set (don't touch the tuner)
2. Look for lots that produce 10 shots groups < 13mm
3. 30 shots aggregate < 14mm
4. Slowest possible speed
5. Look for smaller vertical strings vs horizontal"
See #4, above.
I am interested in knowing more detail about why we should look for slowest possible speed. Is there physics involved with this? Does it have to do with bullet RPM (revolutions per minute). If so, and if 'faster' muzzle velocities over-spin the bullet, is that why people experiment with 17" twist barrels occasionally?
Perhaps this needs to be another thread. I guess the main reason I am asking is because the last lot testing I did, with my rifle and Tenex, one of the faster muzzle velocities ended up grouping the smallest. As always, I suppose it just depends on each individual rifle.
Thanks for the excellent tutorial on tuner setting. This is very, very good information.
Slowest possible speed...
Why I'm always saying go for the lowest possible ammo?
It has to do with physics, yes. But only because we shot subsonic bullets.
Indoors are not a problem. In fact, with no wind the drift difference between a slower and a faster ammo is negligible...
Drift... another important fact, which we don't talk much.
Sound barrier... the issue limit for our ammo.
As a bullet approaches the sound barrier velocity, air resistance increases exponentially. And air resistance have a direct relationship with drift.
We don't want our bullets to drift, that's a fact. However, drift is always present, as long as we shoot in the atmosphere.
So, if there's air movement, drift will be noticeable. If the air movement increases its velocity, drift will increase too, and as it applies a constant force to the bullet, it produces linear acceleration to the side of air direction.
As bullet velocity increases, air resistance increases and that drift direction increases proportionally.
Against popular believe, the faster a bullet the more drift it will have. Drift, per se, is not a bad thing, if it's always the same. Issue is, facing an air movement always changing velocity.
To give an example, if a slower bullet has, let's say 10mm drift with a 10Km/h air movement, and produces a 10mm group, it has to be added to its group ability to know the odds of such a bullet hitting an X at the end of the 50m. In this example 10+10=20mm, so we have to pounder something in between to be on the safe side. Making it more clear. Considering group and drift as circles, the probability, in that air movement, to hit the X is 2x(half oh both circles)=10mm plus or minus 5mm. Meaning our POA should be somewhere 10mm off to the side of air movement. That way we maximise the changes of hitting that X.
Now, with a faster bullet, with the same 10mm group size but with a drift of 14mm. It will be 5+7=12mm plus or minus 6mm. Now POA of 12mm. Not much, but with a probability of 6mm to hit each side.
Remember, as velocity increases, the drift will also, but exponentially (because of a constant lateral applied force, plus increased resistance), so you are reducing the changes of hitting that X.
Of course, if the better lot is faster, you have to live with it, knowing the X count will be lower, or even worst, the score.
Another thing to be taken in account is after a certain air movement speed, with faster bullets, "flyers" are much more prone to happen.
Why I'm always saying go for the lowest possible ammo?
It has to do with physics, yes. But only because we shot subsonic bullets.
Indoors are not a problem. In fact, with no wind the drift difference between a slower and a faster ammo is negligible...
Drift... another important fact, which we don't talk much.
Sound barrier... the issue limit for our ammo.
As a bullet approaches the sound barrier velocity, air resistance increases exponentially. And air resistance have a direct relationship with drift.
We don't want our bullets to drift, that's a fact. However, drift is always present, as long as we shoot in the atmosphere.
So, if there's air movement, drift will be noticeable. If the air movement increases its velocity, drift will increase too, and as it applies a constant force to the bullet, it produces linear acceleration to the side of air direction.
As bullet velocity increases, air resistance increases and that drift direction increases proportionally.
Against popular believe, the faster a bullet the more drift it will have. Drift, per se, is not a bad thing, if it's always the same. Issue is, facing an air movement always changing velocity.
To give an example, if a slower bullet has, let's say 10mm drift with a 10Km/h air movement, and produces a 10mm group, it has to be added to its group ability to know the odds of such a bullet hitting an X at the end of the 50m. In this example 10+10=20mm, so we have to pounder something in between to be on the safe side. Making it more clear. Considering group and drift as circles, the probability, in that air movement, to hit the X is 2x(half oh both circles)=10mm plus or minus 5mm. Meaning our POA should be somewhere 10mm off to the side of air movement. That way we maximise the changes of hitting that X.
Now, with a faster bullet, with the same 10mm group size but with a drift of 14mm. It will be 5+7=12mm plus or minus 6mm. Now POA of 12mm. Not much, but with a probability of 6mm to hit each side.
Remember, as velocity increases, the drift will also, but exponentially (because of a constant lateral applied force, plus increased resistance), so you are reducing the changes of hitting that X.
Of course, if the better lot is faster, you have to live with it, knowing the X count will be lower, or even worst, the score.
Another thing to be taken in account is after a certain air movement speed, with faster bullets, "flyers" are much more prone to happen.
5th and last step
This is a confirmation step. This means you are going to confirm your tuner set point with the best available (at that time) ammo for your rifle.
You are going to have two different steps:
1. Calm day
2. Light to medium strength windy day
On a calm day you are going to repeat the 3rd step (shooting lines) to fine tune the tuner. Remember, only ups and downs are important.
A word of understanding your expected goals.
You brought from 4th step a lot that produces 30 shots in 14mm (I know a bit large, but it is what it is). If such a lot is going to confirm the set point you can accept bullets 1mm up or down from the line.
If the ammo is producing smaller than 14mm only accepts touching the line.
Again, 1-2 clicks out to correct those ups/downs, or if too large horizontal 1-2 clicks in.
Once satisfied, shoot a couple of targets for score. Don't rush, shoot the best you can. I can live with a 247 > 16Xs for a 14mm group ammo, and a 249 >18 Xs for 12mm or smaller group ammo.
You are looking for Xs. The 3x card should be >50Xs
More often than not your set point shouldn't move or just differ a couple of clicks from previous steps.
You are done!
Keep that set point, Don't touch it until a major rifle component is changed (action, barrel or tuner).
Every time you miss, don't fall on the typical trap... my rifle is not tuned. No, the rifle is tuned.
It was you.
Learning why you missed, is the way to progress and it will pay dividends on the long run.
On a light to medium windy day, you are just learning what your chosen ammo does. Some will be harder on red, others on green winds.
Here, what you are doing is measuring the drift.
This is a very important learning.
Again, expect your bullets to go more open than before, but don't touch the tuner, it's set.
Just learn the ammo, and which POA should be used.
As I told you in the beginning, my tuning process, is simple and not top secret.
It's a methodical one.
I wish to thank you for your time.
Have fun!
This is a confirmation step. This means you are going to confirm your tuner set point with the best available (at that time) ammo for your rifle.
You are going to have two different steps:
1. Calm day
2. Light to medium strength windy day
On a calm day you are going to repeat the 3rd step (shooting lines) to fine tune the tuner. Remember, only ups and downs are important.
A word of understanding your expected goals.
You brought from 4th step a lot that produces 30 shots in 14mm (I know a bit large, but it is what it is). If such a lot is going to confirm the set point you can accept bullets 1mm up or down from the line.
If the ammo is producing smaller than 14mm only accepts touching the line.
Again, 1-2 clicks out to correct those ups/downs, or if too large horizontal 1-2 clicks in.
Once satisfied, shoot a couple of targets for score. Don't rush, shoot the best you can. I can live with a 247 > 16Xs for a 14mm group ammo, and a 249 >18 Xs for 12mm or smaller group ammo.
You are looking for Xs. The 3x card should be >50Xs
More often than not your set point shouldn't move or just differ a couple of clicks from previous steps.
You are done!
Keep that set point, Don't touch it until a major rifle component is changed (action, barrel or tuner).
Every time you miss, don't fall on the typical trap... my rifle is not tuned. No, the rifle is tuned.
It was you.
Learning why you missed, is the way to progress and it will pay dividends on the long run.
On a light to medium windy day, you are just learning what your chosen ammo does. Some will be harder on red, others on green winds.
Here, what you are doing is measuring the drift.
This is a very important learning.
Again, expect your bullets to go more open than before, but don't touch the tuner, it's set.
Just learn the ammo, and which POA should be used.
As I told you in the beginning, my tuning process, is simple and not top secret.
It's a methodical one.
I wish to thank you for your time.
Have fun!
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Friend PedroS
I quote from the fifth and last step in your tuning process:
I underlined the halcyon sentence.
______________________
You are done!
Keep that set point, Don't touch it until a major rifle component is changed (action, barrel or tuner).
Every time you miss, don't fall on the typical trap... my rifle is not tuned. No, the rifle is tuned.
It was you.
________________________________________
Friend PedroS, the above quote from you is the number 1, absolute most important information for newbies, or anyone, attempting to set their muzzle device.
A muzzle device is used to stop the muzzle of a gun barrel one time, thereafter, it is never touched again, until like you say, Pedro, a major rifle component is changed.
Your LBK and pistol fool friend, Bill Calfee
I quote from the fifth and last step in your tuning process:
I underlined the halcyon sentence.
______________________
You are done!
Keep that set point, Don't touch it until a major rifle component is changed (action, barrel or tuner).
Every time you miss, don't fall on the typical trap... my rifle is not tuned. No, the rifle is tuned.
It was you.
________________________________________
Friend PedroS, the above quote from you is the number 1, absolute most important information for newbies, or anyone, attempting to set their muzzle device.
A muzzle device is used to stop the muzzle of a gun barrel one time, thereafter, it is never touched again, until like you say, Pedro, a major rifle component is changed.
Your LBK and pistol fool friend, Bill Calfee