Can we wait good barrels with this method?

technology

this technology is probably a few years out for us. non contact machining is the future for many industries and the quality is flawless. remove material with no heat or stress and smooth finish without burrs or tool marks. We are merely dinosaurs awaiting time to pass us by, the future holds advancements we cant even dream of. PS I like the way this Timo guy thinks, he is not afraid to rattle some cages by the way our military and aerospace already utilize this technology
 
Jsmith said:
this technology is probably a few years out for us. non contact machining is the future for many industries and the quality is flawless. remove material with no heat or stress and smooth finish without burrs or tool marks. We are merely dinosaurs awaiting time to pass us by, the future holds advancements we cant even dream of. PS I like the way this Timo guy thinks, he is not afraid to rattle some cages by the way our military and aerospace already utilize this technology
Click to expand...


Howdy,

This quote reads as if this technology is currently in use on rifle barrels. If so, where does one get these winning barrels?

"In the production of gun barrels, the traditional methods are cut rifling, buttoning and hammer forging. ECM has distinct advantages over these methods – particularly output, consistency, precision, low tooling cost, and the elimination of post rifling processes. Stress relieving or straightening can be eliminated with ECM. The ECM process can rifle profiled barrels or blanks, and Inconel barrels are just as easy as ordnance steel. Unlike buttoning, ECM can quickly rifle a barrel with no distortion during the process. This is valuable in the production of air guns and composite reinforced barrels, for example, where the thin-walled barrel is more susceptible to distortion, which leads to inconsistency and ultimately a compromise in accuracy.

ECM rifling is best suited for high production runs with minimal variation, and here again ECM is showing substantial value. In competitive shooting, where match grade barrels are the minimum standard, and gain twist and special groove profiles are prominent, the effectiveness of the ECM process is distinguished. "

Are they speaking in theory on barrel production, or is it being done already? If it's being done, where does one get these winning barrels?

Take care,

Greg
 
Friend gun fool Timo

Timo said:
Do you have any knowledge how thisway made barrels work?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CylcaXYNzcg&t=3s

https://bernardandcompany.com/ecm-new-paths-in-part-production/

BR, Timo
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_________________________________


Friend gun fool Timo:


Go to time 1:24 in the first video....


I'll bet anyone a ten dollar bill if you slugged one of these barrels it'd scare you to death...


First of all, it may be my imagination but if you look closely there's faint ripples crosswise in the grooves...


But let's say it is my imagination and there are no faint crosswise ripples...


The waxed, lead bullet barrels we use in RFBR have microscopic longitudinal grooves in both the lands and grooves which are required to properly carry wax the entire length of the bore, which are produced by the lapping process...


The point being, even if these barrels have perfect dimensions throughout the entire length of the bore, they will not carry wax without being lapped.....


And of course the bores of these barrels are not tapered....


There's one more very important consideration concerning these barrels....which I'll mention later...


Your pistol fool friend, BC
 
Ofcourse I am not EDM or ECM specialist.2 of my hunting friends are.Brothers.

Long time ago I have possibility to see what they make with those technologies and was impressed.

With how small tolerances they must work.Everything was thermal calibrated.Even measure equipments price they used are about same price as my house price.

They can speak 0,001 mm accuracy and this is not only words like many times on other areas.

How smooth surfaces with very tight tolerances they can make.When I was there they made asthma pumps metal parts to plastic moldings.

Also small changes of metal hardness are not problem with those tecnologies.

Until what I see there I have been waiting that those technologies are coming to making chambers & barrels.

Thats why I am intrested.

BR, Timo
 
Friend gun fool Timo

Timo said:
Ofcourse I am not EDM or ECM specialist.2 of my hunting friends are.Brothers.

Long time ago I have possibility to see what they make with those technologies and was impressed.

With how small tolerances they must work.Everything was thermal calibrated.Even measure equipments price they used are about same price as my house price.

They can speak 0,001 mm accuracy and this is not only words like many times on other areas.

How smooth surfaces with very tight tolerances they can make.When I was there they made asthma pumps metal parts to plastic moldings.

Also small changes of metal hardness are not problem with those tecnologies.

Until what I see there I have been waiting that those technologies are coming to making chambers & barrels.

Thats why I am intrested.

BR, Timo
Click to expand...


____________________________________


Friend gun fool Timo:


I'm also interested in new technologies......


But this technology will not produce competitive barrels for waxed, lead bullet RFBR contraptions...

And the reason has nothing to do with how accurately this technology can produce the bore of a barrel...


The barrels produce by this method might make accurate hunting rifle barrels, and might even find use in CFBR where jacketed bullets are used....


But not in RFBR where we shoot waxed lead bullets...


Friend gun fool Timo, it'll take me some goodly amount of typing to tell you why.....I don't have time at the moment..


But I will get back and explain the reason before long....



Your pistol fool friend, BC
 
Friend gun fool Timo

Friend gun fool Timo


Friend gun fool Timo:


If the process in your video produced the most uniform bores on the face of the planet, these barrels will never be competitive in RFBR, because we shoot waxed lead bullets.


The reason being, these barrels share the same characteristics as cut rifled barrels...


Friend Timo, years ago, maybe 15 years ago, or so, I made a public offer to any cut rifled rimfire barrel maker, that for $25,000 I'd tell them why their cut rifled barrels will never be competitive in RFBR...


A lot of folks made light of my offer, and I don't blame them.....


But................


15 years later and cut rifled barrel as not competitive in RFBR......

And never will be........


This is why these barrels, in the video you posted, will never be competitive in RFBR because they share the same characteristics as cut rifled barrels...


Only button rifled barrels will ever be competitive at the highest level of RFBR, because they have a unique characteristic.


And this characteristic comes from the fact that the rifling is produced by displacing metal as the button is pulled through the bore....


This displacement of metal, for whatever reason(s), gives button rifled bores a unique characteristic, which can not be lapped out, that allows waxed lead bullets to produce their best accuracy...


This is why Dan Muller and Paul Tolvstad stopped making cut rifled barrels and started making button rifled barrels.


By the way, my $25,000 offer still stands......


The problem is, should any cut rifled rimfire barrel maker take me up on the offer, once they know the reasons they still couldn't do anything about correcting the problem.....


This is why the barrels in the video, no matter how perfectly the process produces a bore, will never be competitive at the highest level of RFBR......


Your pistol fool friend, BC


_________________________


PS:


This is why I titled my book, "The Art of Rimfire Accuracy".......


Producing rimfire accuracy is 75% Art and 25% science and technology............
 
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