Ready taper after button rifling? Bill &Paul!

Timo

Member
Our "private" button rifling project is late.Machinist has had too much other works hands full.Very near ready.....

Just thinking aloud.Can we find way that we can get ready taper after draw or push button through the barrel ?

1) If we have barrels outside measures lets say 0,85" back and 0,95" on the muzzle.Put button through the barrel.Do we have little taper inside measures then? What happens if then put barrel to lathe and change outside measure straight 0,85" or so? Taper disappeared?

2) If we heat up barrel from other end just before buttoning.Lets say 400 Fahrenheit other end and 140 Fahrenheit other end.Then put button through the barrel.Do we have tapered barrel? I dont know how constantly warm is from end to end????
I took those Fahrenheits from hat, must count more sharp if we are going to test this.

Maybe again something wrong with my morning coffee or was there one cup too much....

But if we can find the way to help taper lapping some way, it is welcome!

Maybe also Friend Paul read this and give feedback!

BR, Timo

Ps.We got all buttoning equipments from Danjon.(VERY good customer service there) Paul! Are you & Dan making your buttons yourself?

Carantee the way to get twist uniformity EXACT need time&tricks.Win the buttoning process only weakness needs to scratch head.

www.danjon.com/
 
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Danjon

Timo,

Danjon buttons work ok. Dan designed his own buttons and we have them made by a local grind shop that makes the best buttons and reamers out there.

The issue we had with the Danjon buttons were they don't fill very well and then you get wash out when lapping. We had to double button the barrels to get the correct fill but that is a major pain and you lose barrels if the button doesn't line back up correctly.

The new design buttons are a single pull and fully fill. You can immediately tell the difference, especially when lapping.

The problem with trying to create taper with the taper of the outside of the barrel is that, it will fill at the thicker end but not at the thinner end, and in my opinion would not be good for accuracy. Then if you tapered it straight afterwards you would have a mess .

If at all possible taper it to the size you want it to be assuming it's a straight taper then pull the button so you don't have any change to the inside of the barrel
 
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Two questions

Why not shoot it with a .100" taper on the outside?

Did you turn the outside before or after normalizing?
 
Friend gappmast

Why not shoot it with a .100" taper on the outside?

Did you turn the outside before or after normalizing?

__________________


Friend gappmast:


I'm sure you addressed you questions to Paul.......


But I'm not sure I understand your first question, and maybe Paul doesn't either?



Would you care to unpack the first question a little more....?


Thank you.



Your pistol fool friend, BC
 
Why not shoot it with a .100" taper on the outside?

We havent done it yet,but I am waiting that if you have outside taper barrel before buttoning lets say 0,9" on the back and 1,0" on the muzzle and leave it so,you can get little taper also to barrels inside measurement.
Never shooted with barrel which is thicker on the muzzle than back but everything must make sometimes first time-:).

With my knowledge here in Finland nobody has ever made button rifling barrels and thats why here is no tradition or heritage of it.
VERY long way to learn this.
Gundrilling,reaming,cut rifling etc. tradition here is alot,but not button rifling.

Our private project goal is not barrel making business and with this money put to gun drilling machine & other equipments is real fool.

Here is little same when one of my friend decited years ago that his dream was someday shoot moose with his own made barrel and he made it.

Paul! We were thinking to use smooth button through the barrel after reamed hole (before rifling buttoning).What you think about that??
We have VERY long way to learn but it is much more longer way make everything with try & fail method.

BR, Timo
 
Friend gun fool Timo

Friend gun fool Timo


Friend gun fool Timo:



I'm not Paul, and I'm not a barrel maker....


But......................



Everyone needs to understand that button rifling is a metal displacement process...



If you wanted a bore/groove diameters of say .217" x .2215" for example, you do not start with a .217" diameter hole through the blank.


It would be physically impossible to pull the button through the blank.......


For a .217" x .2215" bore/groove, for example, the hole through the blank is something like .220".....or so.


When the button is pulled through the blank, the metal is displaced forming the .217" x 2215" bore/grooves that you want.



I would suspect that trying to pull a smooth button through a blank, like you suggest, would be difficult, since if the button were just a tenth larger than the hole in the blank, you couldn't pull it through the blank....


And if it were the same size as the hole in the blank, it wouldn't do any good, anyway, although, Paul needs to confirm this part.......



Friend Timo, Paul has already stated, and I completely agree, there's no way to mechanically induce taper into a button rifled bore, successfully.


Button rifled barrels are produced with straight, uniform diameter blanks.......


The magic then comes with the ART of the taper lapping....


It's the same story, over and over:


Producing killer rimfire accuracy is ART.......


Your pistol fool friend, BC
 
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