Good lot

[Timo]

About my small world.

My prone shooter friend give me tip about Midas + lot what works very well his prone RF.s batch test on outside range.He shooted from linear guided test bench.
He said there is little left on place where he bought those.

I tried to be fast and got 2 boxes (100 pieces) to check it on my 64 year old Valmet prone RF.

Put target to 53 meter outside range and 2 wind flags.Slow main wind from right, only few fast moments wind goes left.

Shooted first 9 x 5 shot groups looking wind flags but send those with different flags & tail positions.Hits goes nice there where flags shows and I was ready to decide that lot works also to me.
Those 5 shots groups were about 13 mm "slant" or "virgule" lines outside to outside.But they goes what wind flags shows.(Picture)

Last 5 shot group I send with same wind flag situation and it was 8,6 mm outside to outside measured.8Picture).

There was only 600 pieces left.Not very long happiness.

But I am happy that my 64 year old "work horse" gives me enough accuracy to make my studies with this "ammo from hell".

BR, Timo

 

[Timo]

This is enough good lot to my small world.

But what happens in bigger world when someone win on ammo lottery exceptional good lot.

I saw this lot under shooted here on our inside range before 2015 Australian Championships and I thought that who shoot this lot has edge to every competitors and it happens.

WRABF WCH 2015 in Brisbane. Australia — Lapua´s X-Act on winning streak​

• August 10, 2015

The World Rimfire & Air Rifle Benchrest Federation 3rd World Championships, Brisbane, Australia, 22 July – 1st Aug, 2015
Lapua´s .22 LR X-Act was the BEST ammunition in WRABF WCH 2015 in Brisbane!

The World Champion title in the class of HV-RF was won with .22 LR X-Act. The Finnish shooters took all podium places and all of them used our .22 LR X-Act – which they tested and selected in Lapua Service Center in Germany during the Spring.
Please notice also the member of “Team Lapua Finland” – Tomi Korpi won World Champion title in the class of LV-RF, 2 Gun Aggregate LV+HV and 3 Gun Aggregate Int SP, LV & HV. Tomi´s results in LV and HV are also New World Records! His son Aappo Korpi (12 years old!) won the title in the class of HV-RF Junior.
Also other medals were taken by the Finns Aappo Korpi and Risto Murisoja.
The quantity of inner tens which were shot with X-Act was remarkable.

 

[PedroS]

Funny enough during the last Worlds, in Plzen, this year, I shot too an X-Act ammo...

 

[Timo]

Nothing off from excellent shooters Tomi.Aappo,Risto & Pedro, but also mental side grows up when equipments.works very well.

But there has been shooters hard work backround to find excellent ammo.And never seen lot what has not wind drifting.

Heh,heh, maybe there is coming feeling to shooter that who is coming second in this competition-.

Then he/she is difficult to win.

BR, Timo

 

[Tony K Harper]

It has been said we have two kinds of ammo. No, not Eley and Lapua. It can be either.

Ammo 1. "ARA" ammo. This ammo is distinguished by shooting a lot of center shots (Xs) but has the occasional flier. A shot that goes for an 8 or 9/ 25 or 50.

The second type is "IR 50/50" ammo. This ammo shoots 10s but hits around the 10 ring. Not a lot of Xs but rarely has a flier.

The dream is for the ammo that shoots center shots and no fliers. It must be out there but haven't seen much since 2014.

We are limited to buying only one case of Lapua ammo per trip to the testing range. It takes 9-12 months to get an appointment.

There are matches nearly every weekend. One can go through 3-4 cases a year if you can find them.

Many shooters have gone back to shooting Eley because of the availability. There is a black market for old Eley. New Eley is working for some shooters but still isn't considered to be up to par with Lapua.

You got to do what you got to do.

TKH

 

[jerry]

My opinion is that since the ammo makers have gone away from the generous amount of wax based lube, the accuracy problems are coming from the rapid fouling build up. This is even worse as the barrel ages due to the bead blast surface at the 6 o'clock position caused by the bullet running over the silica particulate from the priming compound. The heavy wax film provided a buffer to prevent this. Borescope inspection has shown this to be occurring at an alarming rate. I just checked a barrel with less than 2500 rounds and was amazed how quickly it is occurring. 11 years ago, barrels with 50000 or more rounds did not have this problem with the heavily waxed ammo. We may have to go to replacing barrels more often as re-lapping can only be done once or twice before the groove diameter gets too large.

 

[Tony K Harper]

My opinion is that since the ammo makers have gone away from the generous amount of wax based lube, the accuracy problems are coming from the rapid fouling build up. This is even worse as the barrel ages due to the bead blast surface at the 6 o'clock position caused by the bullet running over the silica particulate from the priming compound. The heavy wax film provided a buffer to prevent this. Borescope inspection has shown this to be occurring at an alarming rate. I just checked a barrel with less than 2500 rounds and was amazed how quickly it is occurring. 11 years ago, barrels with 50000 or more rounds did not have this problem with the heavily waxed ammo. We may have to go to replacing barrels more often as re-lapping can only be done once or twice before the groove diameter gets too large.

I’m seeing the same thing. I can remember when Eley had so much wax you would have to scoop it out of your port area. That is no longer the case. On new barrels when you push a round in the chamber you can feel a crunch and the barrel fouls very quickly.
TKH

 

[PedroS]

Ammo 1. "ARA" ammo. This ammo is distinguished by shooting a lot of center shots (Xs) but has the occasional flier. A shot that goes for an 8 or 9/ 25 or 50.

The second type is "IR 50/50" ammo. This ammo shoots 10s but hits around the 10 ring. Not a lot of Xs but rarely has a flier.

With our current scoring system (WBSF and WRABF) better to be on 10 ring and later think about Xs.
That's why I preach we should change our scoring system, adding the Xs to the total score. This way the best shooter (more Xs) can overcame a bad shot, or a bad bullet.

 

[404tbang]

My opinion is that since the ammo makers have gone away from the generous amount of wax based lube, the accuracy problems are coming from the rapid fouling build up. This is even worse as the barrel ages due to the bead blast surface at the 6 o'clock position caused by the bullet running over the silica particulate from the priming compound. The heavy wax film provided a buffer to prevent this. Borescope inspection has shown this to be occurring at an alarming rate. I just checked a barrel with less than 2500 rounds and was amazed how quickly it is occurring. 11 years ago, barrels with 50000 or more rounds did not have this problem with the heavily waxed ammo. We may have to go to replacing barrels more often as re-lapping can only be done once or twice before the groove diameter gets too large.

Howdy Jerry,

It's early (3:40AM) and I need more coffee, but I thought I saw a picture somewhere of a barrel meeting your description. If that was your post, could you post that picture here as well, please?

I would think someone having top equipment would quickly start avoiding Eley if this is the case.

Would too small of an amount of wax be some sort of cost saving move by Eley? Not that ammo prices have gone down....

Would it not be the case that barrels could start leading up like this?

To me, it would just be incentive to look for more Lapua and not risk bore damage.

Take care,

Greg

 

[jerry]

Both modern Eley and Lapua fail to prevent the bead blast surface from happening. I do not know about RWS as nobody shoots it around here. Lapua utilizes a bullet coating and an oil based lube which reduces the leading. Eley is still using wax but is lacking a sufficient amount to do any good. Eley was rumored to have reduced the wax so as to make it easier to chamber in cold weather. Big mistake!!! 416 barrel steel is too soft to prevent the damage.

 

[penn63]

404tbang you may have seen a photo of my barrel with about one case of ammo through it. Looks like a gravel road. I shot Eley when it was new about two years ago. Didn`t seem to like it so I shot what I had left of Midas Plus. Since Lapua is unobtainable at present I have shot RWS R50 exclusively. Evidently it has the ground glass in the priming compound also. See attached photo.

New barrels are not available at present so it is what it is. I really don`t want to spend upwards of $700.00 every two years having a new barrel fitted. Think I`ll take up Tiddly Winks.

 

[Old-Trev]

I had problems with Lapua's oil based lube. The oil actually capillaried around projectile into powder and stuck it togrther. It would not tip out of case when [rojectile pulled, had to scrape it out wih a tooth pick. I live in North Queensland Australia and temperatures get fairly high. The rounds were so slippery that at times you had trouble picking them up. The results dowh range were drastic, although they all went off, at 100 yards the vertical dispersion at ttimes was 4 inches (100mm). Contacted Lapua by E/mail received acknolegment and nothing more. Gace away over half a case and changed to Eley Match. Will not use Lapua again. It was Lapua Centre-X.
Cheers,
Trevor.

 

[penn63]

It a shame that we have to pay $20 a box for crap ammo, and then have it ruin our barrels.

 

[404tbang]

404tbang you may have seen a photo of my barrel with about one case of ammo through it. Looks like a gravel road. I shot Eley when it was new about two years ago. Didn`t seem to like it so I shot what I had left of Midas Plus. Since Lapua is unobtainable at present I have shot RWS R50 exclusively. Evidently it has the ground glass in the priming compound also. See attached photo.View attachment 6085 New barrels are not available at present so it is what it is. I really don`t want to spend upwards of $700.00 every two years having a new barrel fitted. Think I`ll take up Tiddly Winks.

Howdy penn63,

Yes, that IS the picture I thought I saw, thank you for posting it.

I don't know of quality ammo that does not use glass in the priming compound. Wish I did.

That being said, I wouldn't give up on that barrel just yet. Bear in mind that's a fair bit of magnification, and there are barrels out there with substantially more rounds through them than yours using the same ammo.

Sometimes the magnification makes things seem catastrophically bad when it is not as bad as one would first think.

No, I don't want my barrels looking like that, either. I've not done pics through bore scopes, so I don't know what they look like.

I will say this.....I've seen a lot of carbide tooling come in to get reground that looks hideous under magnification. And somehow, it did it's job. The magnification can make things seem worse than they are.

But absolutely, I don't want my bores being eroded. That being said, don't lose confidence in it yet. Other more experienced people may jump in here, I hope.

Take care,

Greg

 

[penn63]

Greg, thanks for your reply. I have been coming in near the bottom of the list in our ABRA shoots lately. It could have been a confidence issue or maybe the wind kicking my butt. We had a favorable wind yesterday, no switching from left to right every second. I went to the range and put up a IR 50/50 target, took my time and shot a 250-16X. so all was good. I read here that a barrel could be relapped if the pitting gets too bad. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks, Les

 

[Tony K Harper]

Greg, thanks for your reply. I have been coming in near the bottom of the list in our ABRA shoots lately. It could have been a confidence issue or maybe the wind kicking my butt. We had a favorable wind yesterday, no switching from left to right every second. I went to the range and put up a IR 50/50 target, took my time and shot a 250-16X. so all was good. I read here that a barrel could be relapped if the pitting gets too bad. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks, Les

I'm not Greg but let me assure you every stainless barrel shooting ammo with the Eley prime system has the gravel road at six o'clock down the bore.

What is happening is the unburnt ground glass falls to the bottom of the bore and the next bullet fired runs over it pounding it into the stainless steel.

Yea, I know, one would hope the next round would blow this stuff out ahead of the bullet, but it doesn't.

If you look careful you will notice the bore is still nice and shiny at the top. This gravel road will continue down the bore until it reaches the end. You can track its progress using your bore scope. This will take a very long time.

The good news is this gravel road has little if any effect on the barrel's potential accuracy.

Nearly all rimfire barrels are killed by the cleaning rod not the ammo. You can see what your rod is doing to your barrel by looking carefully ahead of your chamber for about 6-7 inches and seeing if you are wiping your rifling away.

Harry Deneen's barrel had no rifling for about the first 6-8 inches in front of the chamber and was still shooting 250's when he finally took it off.

There are other more creative ways to destroy barrels one is to fire a round that has a bullet stuck in it. Happens more often than you think.

TKH

 

[penn63]

Tony, thanks for your reply. I got some confidence back yesterday. I didn't have any flyers that defied logic, although my logic could be suspect. LOL. I'm on the notify when back in stock list for a .900 Shilen ratchet at Killough's. I'll just keep it in inventory for future use if needed and keep shooting what I have. I was told not to buy a borescope because what you don't know won't hurt you. I use it mainly now to make sure the carbon ring is removed. Thanks again for the encouragement. This rifle is my first custom build that I have been shooting for 2 years.